What is “careful play, proper execution and teamwork over rushing”? Going slow.
Popluation is down. Glad we cleared that up.
It’s not. Do you not understand that we are only 3 months in? You can’t compare mid-season numbers to end-season numbers.
Putting that aside, the squish removed M+2-11 keys so we are missing all of those numbers because they were absorbed into M0 which isn’t logged.
We don’t know the population. We do know the participation.
Gaslighting again.
Do you know what assume means?
I do, but do you? You are assuming you know about M+ enough to try and advocate for fundamental changes when you don’t participate in it. You are literally basing this off of streamers and experience in previous season’s low keys with carries.
I also don’t think players who do Delves are “below” me. It’s different content. I tell people to stick to Raiding just the same. That doesn’t mean I think anything less of raiders.
Also, you cannot make the claim that more people do Delves because you have zero data to support that.
Talk about assuming.
Because I’m not playing this season does not mean I do not or have not played.
Assume means you are making an as out of u and me by putting words in my mouth that you assume I meant. Stop gaslighting.
Still haven’t addressed the fact that Blizzard is openly discussing changing the timer to a death counter.
You played very little in the past. You got KSE which is running +5 keys. You openly stated that they were filled with people who would speed through it and leave you in the dust which means you or the keyholder invited them to carry the group. Which means they were vastly over geared and over qualified. This is not the same as progressing with people who are similarly geared and skilled. This is a choice the group leader made and not a fault of the timer.
I just literally pointed out how you made massive assumptions. You have done so constantly. It’s not gaslighting if it’s true.
You also stated very clearly that M+ participation is at the lowest point since it started. I showed you objective proof that we are higher than Legion, SL, and BFA even with the level squish and being only 3 months in.
You also stated that Delves has higher participation with zero supporting evidence.
All you do is assume while telling me not to. What is that called? Oh right, gaslighting. Hilariously ironic isn’t it.
The same toxicity will still exist. You die, you make the group waste time, people blame you. Anyone underperforming will feel like they’re victims of toxicity. No one is ready to accept that they just have to play better.
The current problem with the game, and this would most likely still exist in a death counter model, is that people are dying to stuff that look invisible. A death counter model would allow to make smaller pulls, the tank dies less, keys are still completed, we go up. You will still have packs with several casters, and still moments where 2 casts go through on the same person, now imagine those on a +22, the guy will still get one shot, he might get 1 shot by a single web bolt. This is the problem. The problem is not the consequences of dying, just the event of randomly dying like that is the beginning of all problems in M+ and both models at hand right now do not fix this issue. Because both models focus on the same thing : survival. The game should not be focused on survival, this is for classic HC, retail should be like it was before, about speed running. Focus on doing big dps, go fast, dmg taken should be an excuse to bring a healer because too much of it will get someone killed eventually, and that’s it. Make clearly communicated avoidable dmg one shot people since this is 100% skill based, everything else is just busy work for the healer.
This change would fix the problem with tanks getting vaporized, meaning more people will play tanks.
This change would reduce the stress on healers, meaning more people will want to heal.
This change would greatly improve DPS gameplay because it would be more about their actual role instead of being wannabe defensive spammers by learning patterns from trial and error.
This change would make learning M+ more enjoyable.
This change would make it easier to improve in M+.
This change would insanely reduce the amount of leavers in M+ since most people leave because of dying/wiping, if you keep pulling and dpsing people have the impression things are going well so even if you’re slow the feeling is not the same and it’s harder to estimate if the key will be timed or not. There might still be leavers later in a run if they see there’s 2 mins left to kill last boss but at least the rest of the dungeon will be practiced by everyone which is an issue right now people leave without practicing which usually results in failing in future runs and causing more leavers.
This change would just make everything more fun because dying sucks and focusing on dmg is always more fun than focusing on not dying.
Keeping timer is a step towards focusing on speed running.
Changing to death counter is a step towards focusing on some of the worst aspects of this game.
It’s common sense. It’s solo content.
No, it’s not common sense. You just made an assumption and an assertion based on circular reasoning. I gave you hard numbers, you gave me an idea.
Torghast was solo content. How many solo players chose to do that for fun aside from being forced to for Legendary mats?
Yes, participation is down and continues to trend down.
It’s not, I clearly showed you the numbers. It’s way ahead of Legion (which you claimed was higher than it is now), SL, and BFA. It’s not higher than DF, but we still have 3 months to go. We are only half way right now.
Stop making assumptions and repeating everything you hear from youtubers. For real.
Chose?
They were forced. So everyone.
You showed the numbers and they are trending down.
If M+ changes it should be for the better and encompass everyone as good as possible.
No more keys +10 ect… just one key for a dungeon that changes to other dungeons upon completion.
Timer is still around but going faster means a higher equivalent +key number for gear.
Enemies are Harder at the start of dungeon, and between time and death penalty, mobs get easier but reward becomes less.
I enjoyed Torghast and solod it many times for fun.
if you remove timer, freeze all CD cooldown timers out of combat including utility and increase pull sizes. required kicks and mob hp/dmg to compensate. Still interested?
(btw this would kil the game immediately lol)
if you don’t like M+ (timed content) that is more then your right. There are many other game modes that have no timer at all. Is it the gear acquisition from M+ that you like? Would you be ok with having a non timed game mode that you can scale up that does not reward titles or score as long as you can fill max vault with it?
I clearly said without needing the mats.
You could choose to run it without needing the mats. Much like you can choose to run delves without needing the lot. Much like running m+ without meeting the loot.
It’s not. You made the claim that participation is lower now then when m+ was first introduced. I clearly showed you how that was objectively false in addition to showing you how there’s more participation than 3 other season 1s and possibly on track to surpass df.
You are… Gaslighting.
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This would be horrendously punishing to the largest portion of the player base and would immediately drive down participation.
Back to the OT, the more I think about it and read some of the comments in this thread, the more I believe a death counter would actually result in more bricked keys for the majority of the player base. For instance, if you’re group is relatively geared everything through 10 is easily time-able with 10-15+ deaths. If that were to change to 10 deaths per key, every single one of those keys would be bricked.
what is it about the casual “only in m+ for the loot” crowd that leads you to think they’ll suddenly start doing that?
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