Bit late to the party, but basically what this would do is make every pull take 2-3 minutes at the very least. This seems like it would only benefit the people that are playing in dungeons that are out of their skill level. What happens when this group inevitably makes it to the final boss in the dungeon after a 2 hour slog, and find that your group just cannot complete the boss?
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In this point in gameplay and the game’s history and frankly how much better people have got at the game in general…
CC Y Mob, Pulling A-C Mobs is not nearly as enjoyable for people as it used to be versus pulling 3 packs, DPS 1 uses Chain CC, DPS 2 Follows, DPS 3 follows, DPS 1 uses interrupt on Y Mob while everyone is AOEing it down with healer healing and dpsing if possible.
Faster paced environment is far more popular and it’s even greater when you get good enough to go even bigger or alter the pull as you want.
The days of steady pulling with active CC to the extent it was in the past is long, long goneeee.
I think what some want is a more obvious “balance speed and safety” meta. Not endless nor waiting for CDs every pull. We are not against the timer or speed as much as we see mobs that are dangerous in a pull (needs interrupts, has nasty AoE that, combined with other mobs, may be a threat, etc) yet with the current “must pull big to beat timer” attitude some have, either too many get pulled or mobs that meet the qualifications for dangerous ones do and the group wipes, thus killing the key.
Safety is how the group chooses to play.
If anything, pulls in Ara-kara have become smaller because excessive risk is not needed.
This is already part of being successful in M+. Ideally, everyone should understand which packs are dangerous enough that they need to be smaller, but we both know most of the pug dps players are either unable or unwilling to be responsible for that volume of information. So it falls on the tanks to know when you can pull more for them and when to pull smaller for the good of the key, and tell them to shut up and zug if they don’t understand.
I rarely get groups that pull for me, but if they do, whether I’m able to salvage it or not, I tell them if it happens again I’m leaving the key. That usually takes care of it. Safety is part of winning, and we’re in the best position to help control that.
Hard disagree that trash is harder than bosses in low-mid keys. You have ample time to slowly pull even single packs in sub-12 keys and still beat the timer. Less experienced players are dying to boss mechanics and sometimes healing checks in those keys.
Lol thinking changing anything at all in mythics would encourage players to slow down is complete ignorance. They can take away the timer and replace with a death toll but you are 100% going to have the same issue you have now. There are going to be players that constantly whine about how hard m+ is because “boohoo the player base is toxic” but in reality they just need to learn how to play their class better. If you aren’t able to get invited into higher mythics now you won’t be able to then either. A death toll is just another version of a timer in mythics. It will make 0 difference and net the same result. This idea that mythics are in a dying state because you don’t clear them is also a bit out of touch. Plenty of players are doing mythics.
A lot of people like the timer. I personally like the idea of getting back to the classic dungeon crawl. Maybe they keep a version of the timer just for the competitive ones. It would help pugs and still give those that care about bragging rights and competition to have a rating system. I personally do not understand that need but seems to be enough people that need it.
I can say the timer being present causes people to rush. Tank pulls three groups because they feel they need to in order to beat the time dies and the group wipes, taking more time away from us had they just did them separately. Because there is so much riding on that timer anxiety seems to get the better of them. Just tie the timer to rating, those that do mythics beyond gearing should not care. No reason for them to.
Sheep moon, trap triangle, sap circle…
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Tanks pull 3 packs because DPS complain about wasting CDs on 1 pack.
Like I said, everyone has a right to be wrong…
Just because bad players die to simple mechanics doesn’t mean those mechanics are hard. Bad players are always the hardest affix, but the objective difficulty of bosses is not nearly as challenging as the demands of the trash in M+. The prot pally tank picking up all of the interrupts and the healer carrying them through the things they should be stopping or using defensives for doesn’t mean that trash is easier. It just means someone else is handling the difficulty and carrying the bad players.
Sure, but those single packs still have more to manage than any of the bosses. It boggles my mind that we’re even having a discussion about any perceived difficulty on dungeon bosses, which are almost entirely target dummies…
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“Free loot please Blizz thx”
Yes, bosses are easy as a tank because there’s now only one thing to manage and virtually nothing can kill you. That’s not true for the other 4 people in the group.
Death counters players might actually try to use CC, like in the old days
I’ll play along…what is an example of a dungeon boss that is difficult, and places more demands on the group than the trash?
Which might be why I have a mix of timed and untimed keys in my runs
True, which is why I did say a more obvious balance between the 2 meta.
I tend not to care if they pull for me, as long as they either bring it to me or handle it themselves, and failing either, not get on my back for it. I have accidentally pulled extra due to AS bounce before, so I feel like a bit of a hypocrite if I get on DPS cases for accidental pulls.
Thing is, sometimes I can wade through those rough pulls, but the rest of the team keeps dying due to the AoE.
You’re conflating the two as if they have any correlation.
Pace is set by group, always has. Those that want to go fast will and those who can’t simply won’t.
I’m not.
This wont be the case once they have to retune for difficulty. You can only scale things so far when it comes down to just dps and hp. Hence raiding.
Most bosses?
I haven’t been stuck on trash for 40 mins yet (regardless of difficulty.) But have been stuck on bosses for the same amount of time if not more.
If trash is an issue, you can overwhelm them with bodies…
Like my +10 Mists of Tirna Scithe key with over 80 deaths.
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