This system is used for griefing innocent people more than it is used for removing bad actors.
Tumultuous Timeways is highlighting the worst of this player behavior. Twice in the last two weeks I have been killed by bad tanks trying to pull the whole dungeon and killing me instead. And the immediate response is always to vote kick me. I love having my ability to play the game be ACTUALLY TAKEN AWAY by toxic players. This isn’t just 1 person ruining 1 dungeon, this is 1 person effectively kicking me from the game for 30 minutes. I can’t even report the player because there wasn’t any message in chat for me to right-click.
This entire system is flawed and I urge the development team to fix this in the immediate future.
12 Likes
Do you have proof of this?
If the tank is pulling, how are you dying?
No, this is 3 people saying they do not want you in their group.
This is by design to avoid people being harassed for initiating a vote-kick.
Is that so?
Now it makes sense; you’re bad. Let the tank do his job.
I will agree that I think the deserter debuff is a bit much given how horrendous queue times are these days. 15 minutes ought to be enough for you to think about what you did.
To be fair, no one reads the vote kick. I’ve gotten people kicked by putting afk in the note even though they were with the group and participating the whole time.
4 Likes
Idk what metric anyone could produce to prove it. I have no dog in this fight but I have leveled 3 toons via tanking/healing random dungeons this expansion and have seen it happen quite a bit. I don’t know OP and can’t speak to their individual circumstance, but griefing in several content types seems worse this expansion. Random BGs and random epic BGs are currently being ruined by AVM users, for example. Not exactly the same but kinda related.
Report brigading, intentionally losing/getting others killed in group content, manipulating queues for BGs, etc. is actually against the ToS.
5 Likes
I have, and do - I’ve also voted no when I don’t agree with the stated reason. I’ve also had vote kicks I initiate get voted down for whatever reason as well. So… I’m not entirely sure that’s true all the time.
Exactly why claiming “this system is used for griefing innocent people more than it is used for removing bad actors” is a bad argument.
Because WoW has increasingly invested against properly enforcing good social decorum. Less active mods, more reliance on user reports and automated systems. Other MMOs with more active mods don’t have the same level of issue.
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That’s good, I do the same, but we don’t seem to be in the majority. Fact is, you can put just about anything for a reason and get a kick to pass quite easily.
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Yeah I only vote kick if the person has actually been afk for a long time. It’s fun to jump into a dungeon at level 35 or whatever and breeze through it with other people on alts that clearly know what they’re doing, but it’s also not fair to vote kick the person who is trying but is also clearly new to the game and having a hard time keeping up. The content and experience just isn’t that important to ruin for someone else for the sake of 5 minutes in a video game imo. I see that particular thing happen a lot where I’ll be tanking and two of the dps spam report the lowest dps for “being bad”, “no dps”, etc.
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The reason that vote kicks are more prevalent in timewalking now than they were previously is because the scaling has made timewalking dungeons a lot more challenging.
The closer you get to 80, the less powerful your character becomes: you do less damage and take more damage.
So if there is someone not pulling their weight, it makes the unbearable timewalking experience even more unbearable.
I don’t use timewalking anymore to level alts, it’s just not fun.
I am using my fully bis character at 639 ilvl to breeze through timewalking a for the turbulent time ways mount - but I will never take an undergeared 80 into timewalking again.
I don’t doubt your sincerity, but this guy literally admitted what he did wrong multiple times and is still blaming other people for it. The people who push for vote kick reform are invariably the ones bringing misfortune on themselves.
My own experience is I can’t recall being kicked from a dungeon since DF. Of the few kicks I’ve voted on, the vast majority are AFK or in some rare cases it was the tank getting kicked.
Disclaimer that I haven’t done a lot of dungeons since the deserter debuff came out, this is more observation from this discussion.
One likely unintended consequence of the debuff: In the past if a tank or healer is sick of this particular group, they could leave and re-queue without much penalty. The abandoned group was left trying to refill that position and, more often than not, the whole group disbanded at that point. I would say that was as common as votes in that it didn’t happen a lot, but the numbers feel roughly the same.
I’d also say that unless you’ve been voted out yourself that most people voting in these kicks are unaware that the person is getting the debuff. If Blizzard does leave the debuff for vote-kicks, they need to make it clearer at the time of the vote that this is going to happen. That way you need three people to agree that this person needs a half hour break.
I dont really do any content that even has vote to kick anymore, but I have absolutely been kicked from groups in the past for nothing, though it was extremely rare. Sometimes it was just people being mean for no reason, nothing was said the entire run, run was clean, got kicked randomly before last boss or in the middle of the dungeon. This has only ever happened in Timewalking to me, no where else as far as I can remember and nothing in recent years. There are players that will do this, pretending it doesn’t exist is very odd, however it is so rare to be kicked for nothing that it almost doesn’t exist.
edit- I’m not sure they can really do anything about the debuff though. It sucks, but the positives heavily outweigh the negatives. Usually vote kick is to remove an afk person or someone whose just being toxic, and that debuff prevents them from potentially queuing into that group again (which would be possible to do without the debuff, not guaranteed but possible). Also you typically won’t get deserter if you guys at least kill the first boss I think, not sure if it works that way anymore or not.
I previously was leveling an alt in Cinderbrew Medeary where the tank and another DPS (both 70 twinks) pulled the entire hallway up to the boss IPA. Everyone except those two died to AoE group damage the mobs did.
Its quite easy to still die even when the tank is pulling.
They’re playing the more demanding roles while I focus on pressing buttons in sequence, I’m ok cutting them a little slack.
Cinderbrew isn’t TW though.
And this is how groups would get 1 boss kills, then be stuck waiting in a queue as tanks joined, saw the boss they wanted was dead, and dropped.
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I see them do that sometimes even knowing they’ll get the debuff. They’re done playing or hopping on an alt. Removing the debuff entirely is a bad idea but lowering it isn’t the end of the world for either guilty or innocent parties.
How does that change any thing? If an overzealous tank wants to pull a whole hallway or half the dungeon, its not uncommon for there to be casualties unless everyone is geared.
Its not just “You must have done something wrong.”
You can outrange threat and if the tank is faster than you, good luck.
Different dungeons, different mechanics, that’s what I was getting at.
I didn’t say they had. I asked a question: If the tank is pulling, how are you dying?
If they’re healing and the tank isn’t holding aggro, that’s a clear issue of the tank and not OP. If they’re DPS and not paying attention to the tank’s actions and just going ham due to scaling - that’s on them. Different answers have different implications.
