Please remove Ashran from the epic bgs. This was a pve scenario that you try to push off as a bg.
7 Likes
Have you ever won an Ashran as ally? I have not, I mean its laughable.
Last Ashran I was in we won with something like 160 - 0 and that was after a failed backdoor attempt.
Have only seen backdoor work once so when it fails we are already 50 or more down by the time we get the tree. Would say have lost more than won. Ashran does not show up in the list of bg when I look at my profile and not sure of the numbers.
blizz purposely killed retail to make classic do better
I just got thrown into a losing Ashran on one toon - no desire to stay since it probably still had another 45 mins left, since then I’ve had 6 toons get thrown into that very same ashran. Its been 45 mins since my first toon left. about to que toon # 7… good chance that toon is gonna get into that same ashran. bg population has died since ashran and classic came out… no chance of getting a different bg. in general I work a lot and only get so much time to bg these days, and when I do it’s mostly ashran which means I have zero chance of getting multiple toons through bg’s unless I have 6 hours of free time to get through multiple Ashrans.
Blizz - remove this gd bg ffs.
I am less concerned about them removing Ashran, I actually like the place…when there is a chance in at winning.
I was in a match yesterday where the horde had 4 deaths. It felt like we were against a premade (not sure how they could do that htough). Their coordination, tanking, healing felt like a strong raid composition.
Anyway, miserable match. Qued again, got ashran again, many of the people in that match were in the same one I was in previously. In my experience that only happens when there is no one quing. Your post confirms my suspicions.
I think most of the pvpers have moved on to classic.
Just got out of a losing Ashran… 25 people bailed @ the start… and five minutes into it we were down to 7 people… we have lost so much bg population there weren’t even enough qued to replenish… and no one wants Ashran… so yeah, there’s that…
Blizz - get this crap out of the epic bg lineup
I pretty much just /afk as soon as I get in now. It takes so much time and the gains just aren’t worth it.
2 Likes
Extend the nemesis quests to all BGs, sure.
Until then stop trying to impede my slow progress in gutting any alliance race not human or NE.
They could probably keep it by either putting a reasonable time limit or reducing the ticket count which would punish you hard if you failed a back door attempt.
Sitting through that BG just to take an L is pretty awful
1 Like
The average game duration in my experience is about 2 minutes more than my average Alterac Valley games. Epic Battlegrounds by design are supposed to be longer.
There are ways to encourage people to stick it through other than “cut reinforcements” or “add a hard time limit”. There are several short-length PvP activities in this game. There are 4 battlegrounds that have the chance to last longer.
You must be unlucky with your AV queues if all of your AV’s are 58 minutes long
Show me your data lol. This is not even close to accurate but if you’re going to make the claim let’s have your source!!
I keep asking for the reference to this, and from what i can see epics are defined by the number of player’s not the time. From my experience these are the time spans of each BG.
- IoC - 20 -30 minutes
- WG - 7 - 30 minute cap after towers are down
- AV - 20 - 60 mins (extreme scenario) have seen them longer but very rare
- Ashran - 45 - 90 mins
Ashran is by far the exception not the rule, so where your information is gathered from, I have no idea, but I would really like access to the source so I can finally accept that my source being countless Epics is completely incorrect.
Can’t this statement you made in an alternate thread also apply to Ashran considering how many people have come forward?
Or extremely lucky. AV is at its best when it is a long game. Each to their own…
I eagerly await for you to come back with “ah, but that is just your experience” / “that is just a small quantity”. I have pasted below my last 10 games across all EBGs. I play enough of these battlegrounds across all my characters to know this is the trend (not fact; of course there are some bad AV games that last 10 minutes).
https://imgur.com/a/DZwKL1N
Wintergrasp average length: 24m
AV average length: 43m
Ashran average length: 46m
IoC average length: 23m
No and to even cross-post that in an attempt to use it in your argument is quite sad really. Surely even you, in your blind hatred for Ashran, realise that people are queuing for random battlegrounds and not selecting a button on the character screen that says “random class/spec/gear”?
A person’s character is their in-game identity. Asking players to either not play or in order to play, you have to play as a spec you don’t want to/can’t is absolutely unreasonable. That is in no way comparable to people who have signed up for a random experience for bonus rewards.
2 Likes
its not worth the 65 conquest and 300g in fish or whatever. even when you join a win-ashran halfway through… still an hour
lol some good solid data!
Yes it is a small quantity lol, and with your vast experience you should have a massive data sample to draw upon so, do you have a sample of your last 100?..I see some exceptionally long AV’s in your lasting over an hour,and some Ashrams that are barely half an hour. So we have some exception cases on the extreme high and low sides that appear to be somewhat skewing the results. I used to think AV’s lasted an hour in a long game, but when i started timing them, I realized that most of the Long ones lasted around 45-50, some did reach an hour but very very rarely. Seems odd that your last 3 AV’s in this sample achieved this hour mark.
As for WG, how do you have a timer of 0 minutes in your sample…I know Offense can win in less than 7 minutes, but in 0 minutes?
I will commend you on providing a data source, however it is a 10 game sample and not nearly large enough to generate an accurate average.
Despite this, it still doesn’t substantiate how Epics are by definition intended to be longer? Your data shows 2 of the 4 (50%) with an average length of around 24 minutes, not much longer than many normal BG’s can last. The other 2 are double that in average. I would think that if Epics were intended to be long by definition we would see averages of all epics being in the 45-60 minute range.
Its called principles lol. Is it my Blind hatred, or your blind obsession that is the question at hand? Stating that “asking people to play in a way they don’t want to is unreasonable” is a matter of principle, a character trait you may not be familiar with. In one thread it’s unreasonable to ask people to do this, but in another where your “blind obsession” takes control, even with the overwhelming number of people who do not want to play Ashran, it’s perfectly reasonable.
If i’m going to make a statement of principle, It has to apply across the board, not just when it’s convenient. It’s like saying “I would never ask someone do do anything they don’t want, that’s unreasonable…Unless of course it will benefit me…then it’s absolutely reasonable” lol
Using “In game identity” as your argument inferring that it supersedes ones “in-game experience” and therefore makes your statement valid in selective scenario’s IS unreasonable.
Personally, I think both scenario’s are unreasonable, I wouldn’t want a healer, tank, dps, to be prohibited from playing their role, just like I don’t think people should have to play substandard content that is a poor experience, which is why I look for appropriate solutions.
Would I ask people to play in a way that they do not like, absolutely. Indirectly I do this all the time when expressing my opinion or when making suggestions since there will always be people who feel the contrary, therefore I would also never make a clear statement that asking people do do something they don’t like is unreasonable.
Principles!! they don’t get to be selective.
Getting into an in-progress match does that sometimes.
Better than those with no data.
Ofc they are intended to be longer, hence the 65 CP as opposed to 40, and 15 as opposed to 8.
True, they need to do something to IoC to help it last longer imo.
True…Which is why you need a much larger data set to draw any credible conclusions.
Sure, but as you see above, 1 game at 0 minutes in a 10 game set can have quite an influence, therefore “some” data can result in an exceptional misrepresentation of fact.
So because there is more conquest for epics translates into “longer” by definition? or perhaps without the extra incentive people would simply not play them? You see, i know epics are inherently longer, not even arguing that, just want to know where this official not implied “definition” comes from, especially considering how fast some of these epics can be won.
- IoC - probably the most consistent of them all - but seen them won in 10 minutes
- AV - more consistent these days, usually around the 30-40 min mark, but winnable in 15.
- WG - Offense - consistently can win in less than 10 minutes
- Ashran - The Boss zerg only lasted a couple days for alliance, but when it was successful the game could be won in less than 10 minutes.
So with Epics, even the dreaded Ashran, all have the potential of winning in under 10 minutes, (WG defense is the only exception)… If I were to design a genre of BG’s that are by definition intended to be longer, there would be no possible means of achieving victory in less than “specified” time.
WG, which I like, and Ashran have been epic failures, there is no logical way around this. It’s not even about the physical time, it’s the perception of time. An hour can go by pretty quick if you are engaged, but when you’re in a position of just “killing” time, that’s when the seconds turn into minutes and minutes into hours and these 2 BG’s are notorious for generating that perception.
Not more than zero data.
Yep, same goes for rated BGs. Rbgs offer more because it takes time to put together a group.
This is true, but outside of ioc and the occasional offense win in WG, they are meant to be longer.
How many of these BG’s were entered into after start? Unless it is conducted in a controlled environment the data is worthless. Probably explains how there were several Ashrans around the 30 minute mark…The clock has to start when the gates open and stop when the game is done, without these controls the sample is virtually worthless. 3 out of 4 Ashrans I get into are already half over, any timer I would have would indicate times far less than factual. Far to easy for the results to be skewed. Therefore this makes someones word far more credible than a sample of 10…
Jugaa’s Blizzard Endorsed 1st Edition of Official Definition’s lol…
I’ll even indulge this, but were they meant to be intolerably longer? I play BG’s to PVP, not key spam as a ranged in a scrum, not to stand around as melee because any pvp’ing will contribute to a loss, and especially not running around PVE’ing. If I wanted the PVE experience, I would PVE… PVP = Player vs Player - that is the Globally accepted abbreviation. Therefore Ashran, being comprised of at least half PVE simply does not belong in a PVP based venue.