I mean, I’ll be proven right in a few months, so I’m in no rush to convince you, whom is determined to be wrong.
Causation not correlation blah, blah. Just because you read more posts from a class whining and you believe it to line up with changes made does not mean they’re related. In fact, it’s likely your not seeing what you think you’re seeing at all. In other words, you’re wrong. Without question.
And if you’re wrong you’d supposedly be in favour of warrior buffs? Guessing you wouldn’t want to lock yourself into that position so you can argue another form of sophistry on the matter.
If fury stayed where they were relative to where they are right now on the DPS meters, I’d still think Fury is fine. They are going to improve though. If they fell further behind? Sure, buff them.
I’m not against buffs to prot warrior if blizz decided to do that.
Ridiculous take, I’d expect nothing less from a paladin.
Blizz either needs to revert the buffs it has already made, or buff warriors to a degree where they’re not a last-resort raid fill.
I asked a 10 man ulduar HM group 40 minutes ago if they wanted a 4915 prot/4923 fury warrior to OT/dps for their 10th spot (they have 9) and they’d rather wait for something better to come along. They’re still waiting.
Edit: They actually lost a raid member now probably due to how long they’re waiting and unable to form a raid. But they’d rather trash their raid than take a warrior.
This is a JOKE.
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What’s ridiculous about it? That being low but part of the pack is fine?
It’s only fury’s average that is low. Their top end parses are pretty competitive overall. They aren’t top tier but you are hardly disadvantaged for using one.
Fury does not need to be better than it is now.
It shouldn’t be allowed to skip further behind, because then it would be where ret was, which needed buffs when there.
If Fury’s DPS is unacceptable here, then so is Ret’s
I can’t help that the group is so dumb that they’d wait an hour to fill a slot rather than take the few seconds of DPS difference per boss that a fury warrior costs them compared to the best DPS option, and that they don’t realize how good comm shout is (or they already have a warrior and wanted better buff coverage, which is reasonable)
I’m not even reading that.
I bet it has some nonsense in it about “Oh well if a raid doesn’t want to take you it’s not a very smart raid, everyone can do content with any composition, including warriors”
The fact remains it is happening constantly and I know I’m not the only warrior feeling it because I know warriors that have quit due to this ridiculousness.
Edit: HAHA I called it! I knew exactly what you were going to say even before you said it. Maybe commanding shout isn’t as valuable as you think it is. And putting down a boss 10-15% sooner by taking a higher hitting dps is more reliable than a 2255 health buff.
I mean, they aren’t great at building groups of they are avoiding any warriors. Warrior brings a lot of coverage in 10m, and I’d usually take one over a rogue there because their utility outweighs the DPS.
But stupid people is largely why I don’t pug raids.
Well you’re in the minority and facts speak for themselves. They’ve been waiting 50 minutes by the way. I messaged them 3 times over 30 minutes (the first 30 minutes) and eventually they just stopped replying.
Even as an above-average fury warrior, and a well above average prot warrior, I can’t find a group it’d seem. And somehow it’s even worse since the feral druid buff.
The difference isn’t a 10-15% difference…
Even a full 10% better DPS than you as one of 6-7 DPS would be like a 2-4% difference in clear speed.
And yeah, 2255 -2800 health kind of does outweigh that to make the run smoother and significantly less likely to have deaths which would slow the run by more than the theoretical DPS difference between a fury and a “better” DPS.
100% wrong. The difference is that high in a large number of cases. A cursory glance at the numbers on warcraftlogs in regards to bosses will show you that.
Why take a fury warrior when you can take a dk, rogue, feral druid or any of the multiple better ranged dps (in fact I think it’s all of them).
It’s pushing an hour now since I messaged them. They went backwards from 9 players to 8 but they’d still rather wait. The discord group I signed up for passed on a 95th-99th percentile fury warrior (not me) to grab an 80th percentile DK.
It’s a joke and has no defence.
Yeah, that group does sound like a joke, as are most PuGs.
People that know what they are doing properly value warriors.
There’s lots of reasons to bring a warrior to a 10m over a DK/feral if you don’t already have a rogue.
There are good reasons to bring a fury over a rogue on 10m unless you plan to use the rogue as your Algalon soaker.
The DPS difference between them in practice isn’t worth worrying about.
If the DPS value of fury was actually unusually bad, they wouldn’t be part of the top speed runs, but they are… In all of them…
I’m not too concerned about the group building habits of morons.
Figures you’d try to pass it off as a one-time deal of a stupid raid group. Newsflash: Most raid groups are stupid and will pick classes/specs that are more likely to get them through the raid.
You’re being disingenuous pretending that’s not the case, just butt out. Warriors deserve a buff because otherwise they just won’t get raids as it stands.
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Oh no, I believe that there’s a widespread perception problem on Fury’s damage. It’s made worse about constantly complaining about how bad Fury’s damage is.
Ret deals with the same problem even now (we do less DPS than geared fury warriors).
It’s a lot of why I don’t even try to PuG 10m raids. I don’t want to deal with morons.
Fury doesn’t have a representation problem in guilds that know what they are doing.
Nah I don’t accept that at all. You’ve got the cart pulling the horse.
“Well if you just didn’t complain as much about fury’s lacklustre damage, clearly you’d have an easier time finding a group”
What percentage of players do you suppose are reading these threads? 1%? 2%? Not enough to create and endemic change to players’ perceptions towards warriors.
This is a flat-out issue of dps and utility being absent from warriors. Players are smart enough to realise that in-game. They don’t need to read my posts to realise that.
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I mean, the difficulty of getting into a pug as ret skyrocketed after blizz made their “just spec holy or prot” post.
It all plays into the player perception, which spreads.
There are reasons fury is a part of all of the high end raids, and if more people understood that value, there would be less of an issue getting into groups.
The top speedrun guilds aren’t bringing them out of pity.
I don’t care about ret, you have utility and two other S-tier specs. I don’t accept that fact shouldn’t factor into the discussion.
Player perception is far more swayed by the actualities of dps/utility than it is by other players’ perception towards dps/utility.
The stats don’t lie, warriors are bargain-bin tier.
More than likely the speedrunners are bringing them because the tanks are using non-tanking gear in order to generate threat faster (due to the entire raid doing higher dps) so the buff from commanding shout does factor.
You show me a normal 50th percentile raid that is doing that, I’ll concede the point. But that doesn’t happen in reality and it’s not reasonable to bring that point to the discussion. It honestly leads me to believe you know nothing about tanking more than anything.
If prot warrior was the number 1 tank, you would have no better time being a fury in raids.
You’d probably be in the same boat, but now complaining that prot is taking away the main reason to bring a fury, making the focus even more on their damage.
Prot paladin being good has the same impact on ret, even with the utility being stackable, there’s no reason to bring a ret for it.
If prot/holy were D tier specs, maybe Ret’s D tier pre buff damage would have been good enough to still get into groups as a source of kings if holy were unusable, and they’d build strategies around not having more than 1 DSac.
Also because the extra 2.8k health when takented is huge on Algalon… Both for the tanks, and for surviving black hole explosion in conjunction with the DSacs those raids have from the holy/prot pal, which brings the value of Commanding shout up to an effective 3.36k health for that window of time.
Commanding shout is also super strong at helping survive less predictable bursts of damage, because you can’t DSac those.
To your first sentence: Of course I would.
If any part of warrior was stronger it’d make the class as a whole more viable. People might think “This warrior in fury is going to do less dps but when we get to the prot fights it’s more likely we’ll get through those, like Algalon where they’ll have to be prot”
That took me 10 seconds to think of, the fact you can’t even think of that really makes me question your fidelity in this argument.
Third paragraph: Yes. There. Is.
Quoted points: It doesn’t matter when your gear is high enough, which is the whole problem. You have 5.1 to 5.2 gs players across a raid speedrunning Algalon, probably forgoing healing because they’ve got the mechanics down to a tee after 3 months on the PTR. The CS buff is just insurance, which simply isn’t the case in normal prog raids that are attempting Algalon 10 times across an hour. They’re running extra healers, their tanks have more tanking gear on because the dps isn’t as high. The runs are slower and the significance of CS is muted.
You’re being utterly obtuse.
Blizz literally told paladins directly they wouldn’t buff rets, and then after months of daily posts begging for buffs they got a buff, purely due to the foot stamping. If there was no whinging, ret wouldn’t of been buffed
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