Reminder that Zuljin went to hell- Eternal Suffering

Community General Discussion
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I think a lot of people forget what Revendreth is about.

Revendreth isn’t a place of atonement for some cosmic level karma or anything. There is no greater right or wrong. Revendreth was the place souls in desperate need of reform went, before being assigned their proper afterlife.

In other words, it wasn’t the individual’s actions that were the reason they wound up in Revendreth, but the underlying psychology and personality defects that landed them there.

In the long run, Zul’jin sacrificing the Loa of the Amani was nothing more than a weekend spa treatment in Ardenweald for them. No, what that little stunt was evidence of was a self-destructive obsession with revenge against a people whom were largely content to ignore him and his. Now, how is Zul’jin supposed to be any kind of decent soldier in Maldraxxus, if he’d sooner kill the Primus and feed his power to his choice lieutenants, rather than obey orders and fight for the glory and honor of Maldraxxus, and the defense of the Shadowlands?

Revendreth is where souls went to be corrected of their innate faults. Greed, Ambition, Hatred, Jealousy, etc… these are all characteristics that have their uses and place in any afterlife in the Shadowlands, but when these characteristics are so out of balance in an individual they make them essentially non-functional, that’s when Revendreth comes into play.

And if they can’t get over themselves? The Maw awaits.

TL;DR - You don’t go to Revendreth because you were a drunk driver, you go to Revendreth because you had a drinking problem.

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I don’t think you understand the difference between “did” and “would have done.”

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He has to live longer sadly. He is our only hope for a return to gritty story. and the few remaining chances alliance cna be the butthats to start that up to switch it up in recent times.

Maiev got put in here place it seems. they even made her reasonable and open minded based on night elf heritage.

A mage and a male in the sentinels? She’s now on the EEO fairness plan trend in azeroth. Sigh, they broke my fave other psycho night elf.

They’d better leave Lord llldan alone when he returns lol.

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Tyrande.

He was the Champion of Amani trying to return their homeland? what did he get payment for his duty to his people when his “gods” failed him.

Eternal Suffering, people need to understand time works differently in the Shadowlands, while he might have been there for a couple years, who knows how much torture he’s actually been through; he could have been there for a millenia basically being tortured for doing nothing wrong.

sacrificing a loa isnt a “automatic go to hell card” there’s no logical reason to say he deserved to be sent to Revendreth unless you agree that’s where Tyrande belongs as well.

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Basically.

Its why kael’thas got revendreth and Lady Vashj didn’t .

That was covered in a “stay a while listen” bit between her and kael.

maldraxxus is apparently for the more successful misanthropes of the universe lol.

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Considering it took the personal intervention of her deity to make her even pretend to play nice (and you can’t tell me her “redemption” was genuine) I’m pretty sure the Arbiter would’ve kicked her butt over to vampire land, not just for her bloodthirst and revanchism but also her incredible hubris and general intractability.

Honestly, the breadth of her sins is impressive. It’s no wonder she and Kael’thas got along so well back in WC3…

He’s only the hero of the Amani, and they don’t seem to be on such good terms with their loas at the moment…

…and also, he was kind of a miserable failure whose ill-considered alliance with Doomhammer got his empire dunked on by the humans and dwarves. The only thing he was good at was committing more troops to his next failure after each of his previous failures.

Well… Tyrande didn’t kill Elune, and she kept all the power for herself, and orcs aren’t really ancient enemies of the night elves, but she was definitely on the right track. Fortunately since she got an officially goddess-sanctioned Second Chance, she can try for a higher score in her next life.

I’m 99% sure the soul in the trailer is Garrosh.

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I think about the sinstone that described a guy who went to Revendreth because he liked to sing.

Right next to the one about an evil queen who destroyed entire worlds for fun.

Revendreth is a little messed up.

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i wonder how many went to check… yes, he is all-right.

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Most characters from the franchise should have ended up in maldraxxus, because of Warcraft and all. But plot.

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I wasn’t aware Zul’Gurub had been taken from the Amani.

/sarcasm off

Zul’jin was a Warlord carrying on a vendetta that had lasted over seven millennia. Quel’Thalas hadn’t been Amani territory since well before he was even born. In this sense, I see him more as a victim of his own culture. He was raised to hate the elves and blame them for every little slight, every stubbed toe, every campfire spark that singed his skin, etc… No matter how small the inconvenience or how big the loss, he was conditioned to blame the elves and hate them for it, regardless of how connected they were to every bad event in his life.

Zul’jin wasn’t, “reclaiming Amani Territory.” The Amani were doing just fine without that land, considering they’d been able to breed an army over thousands of years for the express intent of genocide, culminating in the Trolls Wars, and then even after that, the Amani continued to exist. Zul’jin was just executing a race war because that was what he had been raised and trained to do, and he enjoyed it. What he didn’t enjoy, was losing, and that led to him growing unhinged.

You missed my point, didn’t you? Let me go quote the short version for you.

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Her god more or less did forsake her people.

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Except she clearly didn’t with the Night Warrior ritual… this also implies if Tyrande could find the means to kill Elune who’s basically a first one tier diety where loa are just simple demigods.

So in your delusional world what does Zul do to not get sent to Revendreth.

He was born in a society where he was clearly raised to be a fighter, he climbed the ranks to eventually be their leader and if you think about it Zul was like what 20 maybe 30 years old meanwhile the elves they’re fighting have lived and killed them for generations.

You could be fighting a high elf Ranger responsible for killing your great great grandfather, your great grandfather, your grandfather… you get the point.

With this understanding aren’t the elves more at wrong than the short lived trolls… even Sylvanas on her first death she lived as a defender of her people and died for them in the novel its implied she’s clearly going to a positive place ( probably Bastion) before she’s yanked back to reality.

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Anyone can invoke the Night Warrior ritual at their own peril. Horde could probably invoke it as well if they knew how to. Blood elves use Elune’s power to burn Nijel’s Point in Desolace questing.

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Get better writers who decide to give him a better story, as opposed to just making him a loot pinata and then an afterthought it the Afterlife expansion.

Apportioning blame in this instance is pretty difficult.

For one thing, the elves settled in land that was not occupied. They were unaware of the Amani’s presence or claim on that territory (although if we’re honest, I doubt that knowing the Amani claimed it would have stopped them, since the trolls weren’t using it).

For another, the elves weren’t expansionist. Once they settled Quel’Thalas… that was it. They hadn’t expanded their borders afterwards. We don’t see High Elven settlements outside of Quel’Thalas, other than a handful of lodges, most of which were built during/after the Second War.

The elves weren’t even all that aggressive if we’re honest. As I said before, the Amani were able to spend thousands of years breeding a massive army to wipe out the elves. This would not have been possible if they did not already have all the land and resources necessary to accomplish this feat, meaning they weren’t lacking in any regard to the necessities for life.

Even after the Troll Wars, the elves and humans did not pursue retaliation against the trolls. They protected their borders and monitored the trolls to ensure they would not become a major threat again. We have no evidence of any Ranger-Generals just deciding to go lay siege to Zul’Aman every other decade or anything. Conflict between the elves and trolls was always largely initiated by the Trolls.

Given all of this information, the Amani are pretty solidly in the wrong on this one. We can certainly apportion significant blame on the elves for building their kingdom on Amani territory, even if they were unaware of that fact, but they had not taken any action to further antagonize the trolls, or even to eradicate them, despite that course of action being within their power multiple times.

Where this all ties back to Zul’jin, is that his hatred for the elves became an obsession that led him to making deals with dark powers (the Second War Horde serving the Burning Legion), betraying his own Gods (sacrificing the Loa to take what they would not give), and leading his people to a state of ruin (in the aftermath of his death, they continually declined until they wound up essentially wiped out).

Zul’jin was a great warrior, a charismatic leader, but his hatred for the elves was greater than his love for his people.

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For the second time, he didn’t sacrifice Loa. He was siphoning their powers, aka channeling their powers to himself so he could transform. If Loas were sacrificed they wouldn’t appear this soon in Zandalar with new Loa champions.

I don’t know. Why is Vash and Draka there?
Zul’Jin is the perfect soldier, he is hardcore, tough as nails guys. And I already listed how he possessed all the qualities that Primus would find in him.

if he’d sooner kill the Primus and feed his power to his choice lieutenants, rather than obey orders and fight for the glory and honor of Maldraxxus, and the defense of the Shadowlands?

What makes you think that way? Zul’Jin wasn’t obsessed with power, he wanted to reclaim his home. For a reminder, it is we that ventured to his home to kill him, not we stopping him from killing others in a Battle of Dazar Alor way where we see clear invadors (who got scott free unfortunately).
When Orgrim Doomhammer retreated, Zul’Jin rushed to defense of Zul’Aman, because he isn’t the guy that would leave his people. They were always his top priority.

You’re forgetting that Kel’Thuzad ended in Maldraxxus. Zul’Jin honestly didn’t do anything wrong. There are plenty of people in this universe that did far worse.

Just saying that if he didn’t end in the Other side, then Maldraxxus would be a better fit.

Thankfully he escaped Revendreth on his own. Because he is this hardcore and resourceful.

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Probably more to do with the way they took the power from several Loa. Tyrande didn’t steal power from Elune. It was given to her.

That said, he totally should have been in Maldraxxus. Come on, Blizz. Start looking at fan art more!

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Uh… no. Dude had an unhealthy obsession with wiping out the Belfs, to the extent of defeating other forest troll leaders to make them bend the knee so he had more soldiers, to taking a war to the elves that didn’t even need taken there, to obsessing over cutting off Sunstrider’s head and burning all of Quel’thalas, then murdering his own Loa to take their power and another dark power so that he could wage war on literally everyone, Horde and Alliance both, because he was so mad the Belfs joined the Horde.

Dude was bat crazy obsessed with blood and war. Recendreth is exactly where he belongs.

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Zul’jin never lost his home. What Zul’jin wanted was to kill all the elves, to sate his personal hatred.

If Zul’jin’s people were his top priority, he would have taken better care of them. In the Aftermath of the Scourge laying waste to Quel’Thalas, he didn’t shore up the Amani’s defenses, he struck out for the Sunwell to take it from the elves while they were weak, because he hated the elves. Given how little the trolls knew about magic, there wasn’t anything they’d have been able to do with it.

Instead, he got all his men killed when Kael’thas blew up the Sunwell.

I may be wrong, but didn’t Kel’thuzad go to the Maw, and then Maldraxxus as the Jailer’s spy?

Revendreth suits him fine as a pit stop on the way to either, to be honest.

Did he? That’s news to me.

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He escaped a wing of Halls of Atonement, hiding somewhere else within the place. There’s no lore after that.

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This is false.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Troll_Wars?file=Chronicle_Troll_Wars_Map.jpg

Sylvanas Mother constantly being mentioned as this amazing fighter from her feats in the Troll Wars.

Using loa isnt dark power.

2nd War Horde were of their own free will, this is like claiming someone deserved to go to Rivendreth cause Onyxia tricked them as a Noble… how is that logic sound.

Again harming a loa isnt some instant go to hell jail card.

it isnt a morality issue. You people keep bringing this up but some loa are flat out feral, and youre trying to claim defending yourself from them would instantly send you to hell? Loas are simply Primal manifestations of Life/Nature… harming them or not doesnt damn you to hell.

Do you think Harming a planets Firelord or Airlord would damn you to hell?

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