Remember frost dks in arena?

PVP Arenas
41

I never said it has to be only viable there, I think frost can still be made to be fine for up to 2400 play. I feel like you’re missing the point entirely lol.

Obviously feral should be good so should all druid specs but still I was pretty clear with saying you can still have Frost DK being a spec that works for cheesing people and just really gimmicky strats that top teams can avoid. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with frost being fine in that way, and doesn’t mean you can only play it in random BGs.

With Druid again in general it’s just designed to be a much more complex spec. It’s not necessarily there to have anything friendly for newer players.

But I think DKs having frost as just a W spamming spec is actually perfectly fine. I just think that if they make it to be the best at high end over unholy you just have lost depth in play. Dks weren’t really enjoyable to watch play in WoD and most parts of Legion just because frost was the only option, but UH DK still has this separation between good/bad ones and while the core of DK play is really straightforward on paper, UH still allows for you to do cooler things.

And obviously yes I personally like to see the specs that have the highest skill cap for a pure DPS class be superior in 99% of situations. Again, when you make a really low skill cap spec the best at top end then it just makes it really lame to watch. The people that would main any class in that situation would be frustrated if they’ve put in a ton of work in perfecting their play and have to deal with fighting someone who has no idea what to do just because the beginner friendly spec is superior at top end.

But there’s nothing wrong with those specs being good for just cheesy ladder play. If you can’t play the high skill capped specs to their peak I also think you should be more useful then on the super low skill cap spec instead. I think many people have that same sentiment.

As for what I’m saying anyways is that it’s absolutely fine for those specs to be playable by 99.9% of the player base anyways. But simply high end play would have more depth if the specs that have the most complex mechanics for a class is the most rewarding one because on paper the extra utility should make you more worthwhile.

That’s not really why frost was destroyed, frost just got hurt by the GCD change because the entire spec wants to do well by stacking every CD at once - and because of the GCD change you can’t really do that. That’s really the only oversight with the spec and honestly it’s biggest issue.

BM pet management isn’t comparable to UH DK pet management. As UH DK your pet isn’t really your DPS bot, your pet is your tool for utility. When a pet is just there as a DPS bot it’s not requiring much management. As UHDK you again want to actually control your pets positioning a lot, especially ahead of time so that you can be prepared to use it’s utility to the fullest which requires a lot of pre planning. BM on the other hand just works by hitting what lights up, and since it’s pet is essentially a dot you don’t really get any pet management out of it. It’s a totally different situation that you’re not really grasping.

This isn’t true, the 50% crit nerf in PvP has been in place since WoD and Frost has been good in WoD/Legion. The only reason Frost is really bad is just because of GCD change so you can’t just stack every CD and gib people which was pretty much it’s biggest strength.

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42

Man, warrior, DH, rogue, unholy dk ect are SO much more complex to play. Rotations are insane on those classes didn’t you know ? Haha. That’s their reasoning. Yet every other class in the game has their entire kit and then some lol.

Frost is actually hated on because it’s neutered. And then they say they don’t even want frost to be able to be played in tournaments. Cuz…? I still can’t figure out the reasoning.

I guess cuz ww damage is basically none existent right ? So yeah, like. Ww is a damage bot, shouldn’t be played in tournaments.

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43

I legit will not read this. I can’t take your posts anymore.

Your argument is to not allow fdk to be viable because of your own tastes. And you continue to write novels about it.

Move along now.

44

Pretty sure you’re trolling now

idk how you have the patience for this dilly, kudos

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45

He deals with it because he’s an intelligent guy. And knows what I say doesn’t mean anything to him.

This is what the forums are about is in-depth talk about the game. Stop trying to turn this into a bashing thing.

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oh what you say doesnt really mean much to me either, I’m just baffled by the sheer and persistent ignorance people can display

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47

If you think wanting all specs to be able to be on the top platform is a bad thing. I don’t know what to tell you.

48

I said frost DK should be viable? I said it just shouldn’t be better than UH DK in tournament level play. I’d be perfectly happy if people could still play it to cheese ladder or do whatever they need with it. My definition of lower MMR is absolutely different than yours or 99.9% of people.

I think the progression with a new DK should be playing frost until they’re comfortable with the class and eventually wanting to transition into Unholy for high tier play when they realize they value the extra utility it has at the cost of being much more to manage. That’s a good thing that keeps players wanting to continue to improve. And for those that want things straight forward, they can be happy simply keeping themselves pruned. Nothing really wrong with that either way.

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49

You keep saying over and over you are fine with people “cheesing” with a fdk. As if dh/uhdk aren’t straight damage bots.

It’s legit the same playstyle. Yet you view fdk as cheese. Damage bot. You don’t see a flaw in that thinking.

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As if the tournament players haven’t dropped their mains for the other classes with higher mongo damage.

51

Which specs in your opinion have low skill ceilings?

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idk bro pretty sure you’re just losing this argument and your only counter-argument is to try and be petty w/ semantics. “you keep saying cheese,” blah blah blah. i’m pretty sure he’s saying that if you want to do huge damage and that’s it play frost. he’s not saying it’s a bad thing, but likely a personal playstyle thing. i know plenty of dk players who hate UH because of the pet. why would you want to make the frost dk class fantasy UH’s? it doesn’t make sense. you’re wrong.

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Fdk has zero damage. So what you said makes no sense.

Unholy has straight up unhealable easy mongo damage. Even more so than frost.

But alas. It has a pet so adding another macro in makes it leet 360 no scopes. Lol.

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54

i’m referring to when fdk actually did something. i don’t understand why you’re being so passive aggressive. UH has a higher skill ceiling than frost, and it’s common knowledge. even if it’s still ezclap it doesn’t mean it’s not true.

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and btw unholy needs uptime to have “unheable easy mongo damage,” and you can kite a dk easily so idk what your point is

56

Yeah higher skill ceiling for sure. Super hard.

57

thank you for conceding the point

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58

If you think that you don’t know how the class plays so now you’ll have to take a seat lol…requires zero uptime for damage. Only for necrotic strike stacking. Gg

59

There actually are differences but it only occurs at the highest tiers of play. Most of any issues that make UH DK have to ignore those things anyways is simply just meta issues and tuning problems. DK in general is still going to be a damage bot, but Unholy has an extra layer that’s required with more utility at it’s disposal.

Using those is ideally is also pretty much required for optimal usage out of festering wound management for strong necrotics. By making the right disruptive choices and managing your pet it does allow Unholy to offer superior pressure but at the same time doing all of those optimally isn’t necessarily noob friendly. The only thing like I said that lets you be able to ignore most of these to an extent is how slow the game pace is and Death Strike being a little too strong in which case your disruptive tools are just an extra instead of something you need to use to succeed properly, but that would be adjusted with proper tuning. The only other thing is necrotic strike duration should be shorter to older forms of it. But when that’s changed it simply does have more depth and management required and mistakes are going to be more punishing as Unholy regardless if your goal as a DK is still going to be a pressure spec.

At it’s core you still do have the same playstyle for DK because you do want to be generating the most pressure possible, the only difference with frost is that it has way less to manage properly at the sacrifice of less tools, whereas UH has more tools but is harder to be optimal with. That is an actual important difference as long as things are properly tuned.

Because if you’re not good enough you’ll have no problem playing Frost. It’s not bad for things to be like this. You still feel like a DK. But to have a more in depth kit and extra utility from unholy the tradeoff is that now you have much more to manage which is cool. On the other hand if you just hate having a pet you can also still just play frost and have fun.

Frosts biggest issue is like I said, GCD change made it so you can’t slam CD stack which is kinda what made the spec good in Legion.

I also think you don’t really understand how the pet management really works as UH still, and why it’s not just about adding a pet. There’s a lot of timing and pre planning required for optimal usage. It’s actually a point of heavy complexity.

Also most people are still going to be against going in the direction of dumbing things down even more. Most of the top players for DK I am pretty positive still would prefer UH to be the best because you can keep improving when you play UH but when you’ve forced higher rated players into playing the most simplistic spec of their class they definitely won’t enjoy it as much. They’ll still play it in tournaments, but it honestly is way less enjoyable to play.

If you’ve never played a DK or seen how the UH mechanics work how can you realistically say “oh using a pet is ez mode”.

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60

idk bro it’s hard to follow up w/ healing absorption if you’re not doing damage hello?