Maybe it’s because you’re a hunter that you think this pet management is a thing.
I said give fdk a ghoul for extra interrupt as that’s all uh has on fdk.
I don’t even like or play fdk. Just pointing out major flaws in game design and flawed thinking of players.
I can almost guarantee you everyone agrees unholy is complete BS. It’s literally only taken over anything else because of PvE MAJOR dot damage and pet interrupt with necrotic.
Apocalypse 1 min cd. Baked in aoe. They basically just gave everything to unholy and left frost to die.
Thanks for the talk but I’m definately done on this one.
So with this mentality, should there be designated specs that are viable at top level and some that just simply aren’t? Doesn’t that take away choice a little and class fantasy? Shouldn’t that also mean feral should be an amazing spec as it’s usually regarded as twice as complex as most other melee specs?
I agree in that I don’t think that’s a good thing for the game to be honest.
This argument hurt my brain a little. Dilly rationalizes and explains why things are the way they are and the other guy just says no it’s wrong/stupid repeatedly.
The reason the ghoul has an interrupt is because of Dark Transformation. It wouldn’t make sense at all for Frost to get that ability. Dark Transformation is like the core mechanic that makes Unholy what it is… why would you just try to give that away to frost. If that was required to use people wouldn’t even want to play Frost.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with frost being playable. I think people do like it because of it’s simplicity especially when they first start out which isn’t a bad thing. Most like that Frost doesn’t have a pet.
Yes, complex specs should simply be rewarded at high end. What that does is when you see high level games it makes people actually want to play the game and get as good as that player.
You have a champion with a really high skill cap, and watching a tournament seeing an absolute monster of a player make a disgusting outplay against still another high tier player in a mirror match up is insanely hype.
If at high end instead, you only saw people playing low skill capped champions like Garen which I had stated earlier… you’d never see really cool mechanical plays like the one above. That’s just kind of a basic for game design and it absolutely can apply to WoW.
At peak play, you generally want specs with the highest potential to do better. Now you can still have every class be good. It’s why with DKs, you can still have Frost as the entry level spec to help you get accustomed to the class, whereas once you put more effort you have Unholy to strive for. Same thing where I used hunters. Having BM hunter when it was really straightforward in the past and then MM hunter in WoTLK/Cata - you have BM that’s really easy to play and friendly for newer players and still enjoyable, but as you get better the amount of plays you can make with pet management and readiness just gives so much replay value as you can always feel like you could have done something better.
When at high end you make very simplistic specs good, you generally take away the ability for cool things to happen and therefore the gameplay isn’t as fun.
Take the current tournament meta. Right now we just see super deep dampening games. Making high risk/high reward plays simply isn’t rewarded. As a viewer, it’s pretty boring. Nothing exciting is happening, you’re not seeing someone make some cool play and be like “Wow! I love playing that Class and this guy just did something insane! I really want to play my class now!”. On the other hand, a big reason why The Move gained so much hype was because they just stuck with their main high skill capped classes, made these incredible plays even in match ups where you’d consider them underdogs as a comp no one else was successful with - and likely would be successful with. That gives so much inspiration for players to strive for.
I know when I was a noob and I’d watch any high level hunter I used to say “Man I wish I was that good and could do those cool plays some day”. It inspired me to try to get better and play the game more. But when those things don’t really happen, it kind of kills the motivation for you to try to do anything. It’s just not as exciting.
It doesn’t mean only certain classes have to be viable, and honestly your druid example is bad anyways because in general one thing about Druid was that it was just at its core designed to be super high skill cap across the board without being new player friendly for any of it’s specs honestly. DK/Hunters are actually a really great noob friendly class in my opinion and it’s why they generally have been pretty popular across the board. That’s why I think Frost and BM still have value while allowing a class that is easy to pick up, have harder to master specs. Now, those harder to master specs still aren’t just at the level they were before - but it still is something to think about. It is what actually made other Xpacs really cool for PvP.
Also, you have to realize that what I’m still suggesting is that these “noob friendly specs” will actually be playable for say 2200-high duelist range. That’s actually good. It lets people have fun if that’s what they enjoy. I am only suggesting that for the very optimal end of play, it’s actually really good to have harder to play specs be successful because the complexity/potential makes it enjoyable to watch.
Frost dks don’t want the pet. Like that’s literally the last thing I see dk players want. They want 2hs, and hate having to manage pets or tank to get it.
The fact that DK is a “hero” class means there should never be a broken 3 button version of the class. Hero classes shouldnt be designed to cater to entry lvl players either. Thats what Ret Paladins are for
I didn’t say to delete frost lol, I said there was nothing wrong with it being viable. Just better in tourneys to have UHDK is all I was saying. Frost can be made fine for random ladder games.
My only gripe, and once again I don’t care because I don’t play DK. Is that it would be nice if Blizzard could make all specs viable.
Unholy has no more of a toolkit to make it more viable but it is. Gets all the attention and love. Because of pet management. How well does that work out for BM ? Destroyed.
Sin rogue ect all the classes I’ve named do big damage like fdk used to. What’s the actual problem here was player perception.
Unholy is no harder than fdk.
If that’s how were going about it. Feral is 41 thousand times more complicated and harder to play than any class or spec… Where did Blizzard leave them ?
Are they also not acceptable to be played and rewarded ? The point you take on unholy pretty much refutes this.
YOU personally like to see unholy dk at the top and frost DK not. That doesn’t mean it should be this way.
I’d welcome design changes to not have frost be like legion again. Not even what I’m after, it’s the fact they destroyed a spec because it’s percieved as being entry level gaming.
Agree with all of this. Frost is suppose to be the “burst” DK spec. Its a spec that relies on crit to do dmg. The 50% crit nerf in PvP destroyed obliterate dmg.
A simple change like making Obliterate do frost dmg instead of physical dmg so it stacks with mastery would be a big step in the right direction.
Id love for you to compare Ret or Fury warriors to the current state of Frost. Just because its “entry level” doesnt mean a dmg spec shouldnt be able to to end game damage.
