i do. RIP (flarkness doesnt count). anyone heard about changes coming? 2h? obliterate and frost strike existing?
Eh unholy dk are the true dks baby, I dont miss frost at all
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legion frost dk gave a lot of mediocre players huge egos and free rating. No thanks.
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Frost is like BM of melee specs and doesn’t get treated like such. Rip all the Fdks from legion. On the plus side, I’d like to see more petkick threads when unholy is popping.
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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I miss everything about old school frost… I played it for the majority of BFA and it never had a satisfying moment. even at ilvl 401 it still sucks. DoTs and melee do majority of the dmg as Obliterate (lol yeah its funny that its still called that) and frost strike literally tickle players.
Even if you dont like frost, no spec should be this busted months into an xpac.
Nice job Blizzard!
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Except they slowly have to waddle around everywhere. Be in the thick of things. Use defensives extremely properly or they are toasted.
Don’t compare BM to fdk please. BM is the ultimate PvE spec and has no place in player versus player. As NPCs are doing everything for you.
Frost is actually the death knights class identity. It’s a shame it’s been destroyed.
Any time frost DK is good it’s been because it’s hard to punish and you just press w and use defensives whenever you feel like tbh
Unholy being the go to spec by having more potential overall is way better I think. That being said if frost was better for noob MMR but Uh still superior at high end I wouldn’t oppose it.
Honestly don’t think any good DK ever enjoys when frost is good compared to UH tbh.
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I think that comment comes from years of bias and hatred towards frost DK. Unfortunately. Uh dk is extremely lolz and PvE spec. People like when unholy is better because of necrotic and has always been this way. Somehow the notion of putting on virulent plague, pressing 1 button to transform your pet and slamming necrotics has been deemed as “more Skillz”
Fury suffers from the same treatment because of arms warrior ms. It’s viewed as mongo noob low MMR because “3 buttons” yet arms is “3 buttons” with ms.
Love your posts Dilly, but that’s just disrespectful towards fdk players. You’re born of frost. (Lich King) (frostmourne)
Why would you even say noob MMR ?
Tens of thousands of players play the game, all can’t be rank 1 BlizzCon finalists.
Probably your most elitist post I’ve ever seen. Must be having a bad day.
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Frost is for bad players also LK used more unholy/blood abilities than frost abilities :")
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Lol petkick just because the current design of the game dictates that doesn’t mean it’s true.
Unholy is the easiest current spec in the game as well as OP lol.
But yeah, frost eh…m
Unholy having access to pet management in general makes the spec more complex. Obviously right now it’s not necessarily the hardest thing but the skill cap of UH’s design is simply higher.
Also what I’m saying about Frost doesn’t necessarily have to be elitist. The way I view the game I actually think it’s really good for their to be entry level specs that are straightforward and help you get more comfortable with the class until you can be confident using extra higher skill capped abilities.
In general you can take the tools UHDK usually has had. Necrotic strike right now ie a little harder to play around (I say this lightly) due to it lasting a longer than it should imo. But still, you have Necrotic Strike, pet management that’s important from good pet kicking to gnawing. Managing wounds is still pretty important. There were definitely times there was still way more complexity to unholy but the importance of pet management to be useful does still add a higher skill cap flat out. I think UH should pretty much always be balanced/rewarded around proper use of it’s disruptive kit and not doing so should just make you get punished heavily. Uh’s durability is a bit too high right now making it much more forgiving than it should be imo. That’s probably one of the largest issues the spec has currently.
Frost on the other hand is simply limited in its tools. Pretty much is just a straightforward spec where when it’s good you’re just there to be an extremely hard to kill (mostly passively) damage bot. It lacks tools so you’re just there to gaspedal and move on. Because of that, it’s always going to be limited in the potential you can do as a good player. But for an entry level player I think it’s a great spec to have still be playable. It helps you still get used to the basics of DK while Uh should have a much higher importance on pet manavement, rune management, etc.
Personally I think havig simple specs that are good at lower MMR while having more complex specs shine the higher up you go is a good thing. It’s not really an insult to players. I think when BM hunter which can be a really friendly spec is super overwhelming and dominant at high end play is generally a bad thing, but I think it’s good when you can still play it from entry level MMRs to say mid skill level range. It still helps teach the basics of hunter, but at high end more complex mechanics and toolkits I think should still be superior.
I think there’s a good place for making simpler specs viable at a lower end and having high skill cap specs designed for high tier play. It makes jumping into the game friendly, and as you get more experience it gives you more perfection to strive for.
The past few times Frost has been good at high end, usually it’s kind of lame because you’re not really able to manage or do anything interesting, you just get to damage bot it up. While it comes off as elitist, I definitely think for the games replay value you need to have a growin reward for skill. Frost as a whole is generally designed with the idea in mind to be simple and straightforward which is not a bad thibg. Unholys extra complexity simply should just reward more experienced play.
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Fdk has exact same tools as unholy without the pet. So that makes it more complex and should be rewarded. Okay, I concede lol.
All PvE dot damage, necrotic has always been broken and over tuned. Everyone hates it.
Pet management lol. That’s actually not even a thing. Press button to make pet attack. Woahhh rank 1 there haha.
But yea I won’t win this. I know that.
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I honestly have zero good memories of frost DKs in arena. Haven’t thought about them since BFA, hope they stay dead.
Basically my only argument comes down to fairness. The thought that one spec is easier than the other is just false. They are both super easy. Unholy more so because like I said, free damage and necrotic.
It’s not anyone else’s fault fdk has no pet or necrotic strike.
I always liked your views on bringing other specs up instead of nerfing everything.
Regardless diversity is nice. Wishing something stays bottom of the barrel because you don’t like mongo damage ?
That’s unfair.
See sin rogues, Destro locks, boomkin, ect ect ect. Fdk got a bad wrap immediately. For basically no reasoning. Other than it doesnt have necrotic. Sucks.
Same as fury. No ms ? Crap spec.
It is what it is. Thank you for responses honestly. Good talks.
Pet kicking have a minimum range requirement does actually make it important to manage where your pet is placed for optimal interrupt usage especially if you need it to happen extremely quickly so that requires pre planning to begin with. Optimal usage of this simply requires much more complexity itself than just a damage bot.
I think Necrotic is an interesting part of their kit and that’s from someone who plays with a spec that has always been destroyed by that mechanic.
The only real issues with UHDK right now is Death Strike in general is overtuned making it a little bit too durable to play. It’s disruption gets too forgiving when it’s as tanky as it is. That said, it’s the really only major issue with UH. It’s extra tools should be a requirement to survival, not just something you can ignore vs say caster teams because you’re too forgiving naturally.
Essentially though think of league of legends. Characters like Garen were designed to be very simplistic entry level characters. It’s fantastic for players jumping into the game, but as you get more experienced, other characters get more value which is good thing.
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So give fdk a pet. I’m really trying to follow with your thinking. But because Blizzard sucks at making their game. This is the fault of the player now.
Fdk has pet now. Same as unholy ? Except you actually have to be in range to do damage.
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FDk shouldn’t have a pet though, the whole point of Uh is to have that extra layer of depth with dark transformation, ghouls, etc. You won’t make that mechanic for frost without copying the spec. Plus a big reason DKs like frost instead over unholy is no pet to manage or worry about.
Also being in range is still very critical as Uh for top tier play regardless otherwise you’re not getting necrotic strike value.
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So mm shouldn’t have the option of a pet ?
Fdk did have a ghoul. Didn’t say it needed to be empowered. But why can’t they have a pet or shouldn’t ?
Not were getting into game design. Which is destroyed anyways.
So uh has a pet kick and necrotic. That’s it I guess.
You can give frost DK a ghoul, only point is that it’s just not going to end up having the same complexity that frost has with it because for frost it’s only going to pet attack, the whole reason UH has that extra layer to manage is because of Dark Transformation.
Ironically with Hunters, at least in their best designed points for say MM hunter compared to BM hunter, BM hunters relied on their pets just for damage for the most part, and a lot of that just relied on them just only wanting to keep their pet attacking their target without utility to manage with it. But when you were playing an MM hunter in Cata/WoTLK the pet wasn’t there for damage, it was there for the utility it brought to the table. Pet positioning and management was really important for any of your utility outside of it just being a dot. In reality this is where BM was really new player friendly because even though it was a pet oriented spec, the management of it wasn’t really necessary. You also just had a lot less utility in general to manage so in essence BM was just there to be really nice and friendly for newer players while the more complex mechanics were put towards MM which isn’t a bad thing, as you still would be fine playing BM in entry level play because a poorly played BM hunter was superior to a poorly played MM hunter and there’s nothing wrong with that. I think this is actually where frost DK would be absolutely fine positioning wise. If anything would to be brought back for frost anyways, I would say it should just be Hungering Cold.
It’s not necessarily a comparable circumstance in the way you’re trying to make it with MM having a pet vs BM having one. Even if you just give Frost DK one, my point is that the pet would be there for a dot. Pet management isn’t really hardcore when your pet is just a dot. But pre planning pet positioning for a pet kick is actually really complex, just as when WoTLK hunters would use Crab pets and had to manage the pets intervene. You wouldn’t ever mindlessly set your pet into attack, you were really careful of where you positioned you and your pet which added so much extra layers on top of what you already had to manage with your spec.
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