Blizzard already confirmed before wrath launched there would be no RDF and this was a design decision that wouldnt be changed going forward. Dont worry you have retail for RDF. 
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The irony is that retail subs keep classic alive.
If there are ps, that has original wrathā¦why not save 30 a month. But, not right now. Want a couple of 80ās, so if the devs see the light and realize the other consequences of not adding it changes thier short sighted minds.
Have the feeling it will all come together, when they try to force eveyone into cata. Just going to be, how big is the actually player base by then.
And the irony is that if retail was still pulling 12+ million subs like it did in real wrath maybe wrath classic would actually be getting proper support.
But nope blizzard tanked retail and instead of just going with wrath theyāre shoving retail design into wrath classic.
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Sorry, I tend to ignore trolls uncapable of having civilized conversations; even if Bodicca and I disagree, they havenāt resorted to insults, or passive-aggresive behaviorā¦ a bit of mockery here and there, but nothing hurtful.
Not my fault you canāt make a compelling argument for why RDF is bad.
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This is only true if you donāt know the long term effects. Iād assume most people who are playing Wrath Classic played retail Wrath before. We all have seen how this goes. Weāve simply come to the conclusion that what little we gain in terms of socialization, if thereās even any gain, isnāt worth losing the convenience of RDF.
For whatever itās worth, if this was the same community that was here when I started playing in 2007, Iād probably be anti RDF as well. But, outside of maybe the first few months of Classic, thatās not the case. To me, it feels like the people who are anti RDF simply want more control over who they group with. Which is exclusionary by definition. If the community was just using that power to exclude the actual jerks, then it would be different. But you and I both know people are way more likely to use it to benefit themselves by excluding competition for whatever drop they want, or excluding fresh 80s. I fee like, if you want to do that, you should be forming groups in your guilds or from your friends lists. And I say this as someone whoās not having an issue with the current LFG tool either. Iāve used it to form a few groups, and I almost never have to wait longer than five minutes to do the daily on my mage.
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And so it bears repeating: this community is garbage.
Lack of socialization. Removal of personal responsibility and fear of repercussions. Even posted hundreds of posts that shows what the result of RDF ended up as.
You just keep ignoring then.
This makes me wonder why Brian used the word āundoā in his interview. They have more evidence, logs and records, data to analyze, etc. that we donāt. We canāt objectively analyze the long-term effects, only estimate some of them. My estimation is that RDF would reduce current Wrath lifespan.
Here Iāll have to disagree. I remember how interactions in runs gradually diminished when LFD was first introduced. People became more verbally aggresive, ninja-looting became more frequent, people were less tolerant to mistakes. To me, the social aspect of the game matters, and a lot; Iām having a blast with my guild and when I run dungeons, even when I start forming them from scratch. Thereās this sensation Iām not willing to give up for a convenience of getting inside a dungeon faster; Iād like to think Iām not the only one that feels this way. We canāt tell how many are like me out there. There are also some intrinsic values that people donāt want to recognize in the act of forming a group.
We canāt name the real reasons, the growth curve had an inflexion point in 2008, around the time Wrath was released. Before RDF, WoW only grew, then it stopped, then LFD was introduced, a little pushed there, then decreased.
I donāt know how it is like in low populated servers. I play in Maladath, and if I come across with these people, I ignore them and seek out those who arenāt controlling.
The second part is debatable, excluding competition is human behavior, and it is present in every mammal as far as I know --I may be wrong. Iām not a competitive person, I donāt care whoās the best guild; if someone excludes me, I look for other people until Iām not rejected. I look for ways to overcome that frustration.
Iām anti-RDF, and I donāt want any control over the people I group with (and before anyone out there starts saying āyou want to force your game style on usā, let me remind you itās a two way street). People have changed, the whole gaming industry has changed. Without control, chaos and anarchy may ensue, that isnāt desirable either. Community is toxic, with or without RDF, Iām just not willing to give up that social aspect a second time.
It isnāt only nostalgia, Iām a people-oriented person rather than an objective-oriented person. I stand as an anti-RDF on that ground. People will try to manipulate and control others anyway. RDF may fix some issues but it will bring some others, and I donāt see pro-RDF evaluating those either.
And they are free to do so, and people are free to look for other groups. If people wouldnāt give into that behavior, it would cease.
Donāt get me wrong, but sometimes, some people present themselves as victims. What do I mean in this case? If people are gatekeeping, then there are other options, and I donāt see anyone preseting these options, instead, they stay in that posture. I know I may get a lot of heat for saying that, but a tyrant is one until the oppressed have had enough.
Iām glad you brought that up. I would most likely feel the same way. The thing is, though, dungeons are a teeny part of the āsocialā game. Dungeons arenāt what made WotLK social. They donāt now, but people were still more social in dungeons in the old days. They were more social in RDF than they are now.
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Right so nothing that has anything to actually do with RDF as we already have the same things happening now without RDF.
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Toxicity in RDF leveling dungeons all throughout the years of retail has nothing to do with RDF?
okā¦
He undid nothing. Just look at Wintergrasp. In OG WotLK, Wintergrasp played huge role in social interactions and faction/server pride. Now itās a laggy, buggy POS. Mega servers might as well be five original servers x-realmed together.
They had a chance to do it right and they didnāt.
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Again, 11.5mil when it was released vs 500k. There are some servers that are 100% Alliance and 100% Horde. Servers arenāt as balanced as they were before, and Iām saying this as a former software developer; coming up with a solution that works out for everyone isnāt easy nor simple.
No amount of money is worth for me to have been in those meetings. shudders
Edit: It has been refreshing talking to some of you, specially Negald, not the only one though. To have a conversation without insults, aggression and negative behaviour is delightful. I have to sleep now hahaha. See you some other time.
No itās not easy but that they chose to go with do nothing then sell transfers is pretty junk.
I wonder about this as well. IMO, removing RDF doesnāt undo the past 14 years of online gaming culture change. Even if you think RDF is the problem, which is very debatable IMO, sometimes the damage is done and canāt be undone. Itās like if a car crashes into a house. Removing the car doesnāt fix the house.
You donāt have to give this up. Youāre still able to run dungeons with the guild. You can even still do it with your friends list. I will admit that it would probably be harder to do it from trade chat, though.
Wrath was, in hindsight, the moment the community divided. Blizzard made the choice to move away from the MMORPG roots of the game, and decided to reach out to what I like to call the FPS kids. The ones playing CoD, Battlefield, etc. By the middle of TBC, they had probably captured pretty much everybody who wanted a more traditional MMORPG. So this was the only way to continue growing. What they either didnāt realize, or didnāt think would be that detrimental, is that it started to chase away the more traditional players. I think thatās why growth started to plateau in Wrath. It was the first time in the history of the game that the number of people leaving and the number of people joining were almost equal. However, while I do think Wrath chased away the traditional MMORPG players, I also think this may have been a needed change. A lot of those players, people who came from EQ, DAoC, UO, FF11, etc., were starting to get older. They were starting to get jobs, start families, and just generally not be able to put in the 30 hours a week they were doing when they were younger. Many of those people were going to be leaving regardless of what Blizzard did. So they made the choice to appeal to a different group in Wrath. IMO, it was either that, or the game would have died. I donāt think retail would still have over a million subs if it still played like Vanilla or TBC.
There are a lot of behaviors that are considered natural, but are not the most moral actions.
While youāre not completely wrong, hereās the difference. This is Wrath. Where the feature was introduced. If this was Vanilla or TBC, youād have more of a point, and Iād agree with you. Wrath should be for Wrath players the same way Vanilla was for Vanilla players.
This is true. Thereās no system thatās perfect. The people who are saying āliterally no downsidesā arenāt being very honest IMO.
And theyād still be free to do so. Theyād just have to form the group in their guild/friends list. I donāt think you should be doing pure pugs if you want to be that level of exclusionary.
I donāt think anybody is doing. I think most people simply want Wrath to be Wrath. I would have been fine with no RDF for the first phase if thatās what they wanted to do. Or even better, a gradual roll out of it where itās pre-Wrath dungeons now, then Wrath normals next phase, then Wrath heroics in phase 3. But instead of doing either of those things, they just decided to take it out. Instead of trying to make Wrath more like Vanilla, they should have just opened fresh Vanilla servers. Thatās the real answer to making both sides happy.
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They already did another Twitter post reconfirming that it isnt coming lol. Keep waiting though.
That is a very very very sad thing then. This is not the line Blizzard should be drawing in the sand.
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Yeahā¦
all 6 people and their army of 20 alts will be very upset.
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