huh, okay. ill keep looking into it and hopefully get a beta inv soon so i can feel it out myself.
Personally, I’m going to be taking a much different approach with my ret pally. I’m not going to be twisting at all and instead gear purely for AP->Haste->ArmPen. Since my mana will hold out easier I can chew haste pots instead of mana pots and just use runes to keep mana up.
As Smeet mentioned you have a hard floor of ~3.1 attack speed if you want to twist each swing. Anything below that and you will not be getting consistent CS globals. Also remember windfury toten is a flat % chance on hit which unlike the weapon buff the totem does not have an ICD so scales linearly with haste. Also, faster swings mean more JoW procs and more SoB damage which directly increases your mana income over time. Having those globals will also allow the free use of bombs/grenades, flame turrets, and other gadgets. If you’re twisting, none of those extra things will be available to you.
2 Likes
I like your approach much more. Twisting always sounded gimmicky.
Besides, I started off holy. I have a tendency to watch health bars as well… When needed, I’ll stop hitting whatecer6and start healing my team (unless it’s a BG… The rest of those guys can get bent.)
Only specific twists worked, and most of them required starting out in command to make it happen.
This is also what I remember but I was also casual pleb in tbc.
If they destroy blood/SoC twist, rip to ret in pvp. Would make no sense though since people were doing it back in tbc.
Seems relevant:
The question is whether this reduced batching window and seal persistence (the seal is not specified; the wording allows for ALL seals to be twisted) is specifically for Classic or whether these changes continue into TBC.
If seals are meant to work this way in TBC, as well, then it’s definitely a bug. I can’t imagine they added seal twisting to Classic but not TBC where seal twisting was actually more prevalent and impactful.
theyve hammered out some other things with seal twsting. originally this change caused seals to linger for a full second, which definitely made it too easy to twist. also early on you could twist different ranks of seals with each other. the most notable one was command since lower ranks of the seal didnt change the seals own damage, just its judgment. this allowed rets to get essential windfury procs. obviously this was not intentional either (though i do wish i could have had fun with this one a bit)
the latest change is the one i still wish theyd change back. the more i think about it, im pretty confident twisting every melee swing you dont have a cs/judgement off cooldown is still going to be expected. if it were changed back it’d just give more leeway to do the same dps ret will still be doing right now. just a “without the warts” experience
Does anyone know if the seal remains for the .5 seconds when removed with judgement and not just replaced with a new seal?
As of the most recent build, the seal persistence applies only to seal of command and seal of righteousness. This is true on both the ptr and the beta. The functionality isn’t different between them. The current setup of SoC / SoB twisting on beta is pretty much where it was in the original tbc (although some other less important twists are still a little wonky, but nothing game breaking).
That original post from Blizzard has not been updated as they have tweaked their seal twisting mechanics on beta/ptr.
They are removed on the use of judgement instantly. If you have 2 seals on at once (because one hasn’t fallen off yet) judgement will remove the most recently applied seal.
We don’t know if it should only apply to SoC or SoR, though, is my point, right? How it worked in TBC doesn’t really mean anything in the #somechanges TBC Classic.
We only know what Blizzard said they were changing and that it doesn’t work the way they said it should after that change. The lack of update is precisely why people are confused about it working the way it does on the beta, currently.
The closest we could get to original twisting mechanics in tbc with this implementation is just having SoC keeping that .5s buffer. This version is still easier to pull off because it doesn’t involve watching for the timing of SoC animations that may or may not happen.
Don’t ignore this part of what you quoted though:
They are clearly looking for something approaching accuracy here. There are already some changes with this method of twisting instead of spell batching. I can’t imagine blizzard intended to fully change how twisting interacted with our rotation AND give us a 10-20% dps boost by making that change when they have already stated they have no plans on retuning classes.
And, as has been mentioned, the current ptr/beta twisting setup is currently on its third iteration. The changes to it aren’t just bugs.
Seems odd to give Paladins both seals, then. /shrug
Yeah, that was an odd choice, honestly.
At least that is still how ret played back then (even with a faction balancing). 2 way twisting would be a deviation alltogether into a form of paladin that never existed in any version or faction of WoW.
Ok let me just start by saying the fact that the spell batching is gone has already Retuned classes Warriors, druids even a spriest going into and out of their stances is much more fluid making them indirectly massive buffs you can now stance and instantly charge for example
Rets rotation change is for the better funwise and gameplay wise I don’t see you on any druid or warrior threads advocating they get a 1 second delay after stance swapping to “maintain” that tbc feel
reading the thread you opened a week ago with your essay your arguement was essentially i dont like the new rotation it’s not fun
I hate to be the one to break it to you but your not playing the original TBC, we’ve got an abundance of changes already Outside the game, resources, addons, better internet speeds, etc, so how can you sit there and play the classic andy when you have access to all these things
tl;dr let people have their fun.
This method already boosts the normal Command -> Blood swap, as you don’t need to hang in command fishing until you get a proc to time your swap back to blood.
2 way twisting isn’t the same as just making a rotation more fluid, it pretty heavily reworks how ret’s rotation looks, while being a much larger dps gain than any other example of batching adjustments.
Im not seeing how it does that the reason you could fish for the command proc before was due to spell batching with spell batching removed that would be impossible hence the .5s change was made even if you fish for procs which isn’t correct anyway as you would want the sob damage to be applied even without a command proc as it equates to more overall damage
Aye, the timing of when to do the swap back to blood was originally as a SoC animation would trigger, making it a more difficult timing to maintain the blood hit when SoC did not trigger, as what you were looking for was an animation that only happened around 40% of the time, which made the rotation easier to mess up.
Now you just swap within .5s of your swing reset, which is a much easier timing to meet consistently.
So now you’ll pretty much never miss that blood hit, which was fairly simple to miss back then (or had the risk of doing it too early and preventing a command hit)
It is was still better to twist to blood regardless of the soc proc as it equated to more overall damage your getting a blood proc instead of getting just white damage
so in otherwords you do exactly as what you should have been doing all along fishing for procs = lower overall dps
no it was very easy to do with a /stopattack macro which is what you should have been using all along
Using stopattack macros are going to cost you dps. Turning off your autoattack for even a tenth of a second is a 2.6% dps loss from a 3.8 speed weapon.
If you are closer to a 3.0 speed doing so costs 3.3% of the swing’s dps.
Compared to a fully optimized non-twisting rotation using consecration and exorcism, that throws away a good chunk of the twisting’s dps gains to use a stopattack macro like that to make the timing work. You are always better off manually timing it without pausing your attack.
The current twisting mechanics are easier to pull off because the timing is fairly forgiving and at a fixed visible point rather than a timing that was based on an animation that occurred less than half the time.
Current beta 1 way twisting is much more consistent than original command twisting in practice. 2 way twisting is an unnecessary buff to the maximum potential of the rotation. Rets were never able to have a full 2.4 seals on at all times while using crusader strike and other filler spells, there’s no reason they should start now.
Some changes aren’t meant to extend to class reworks.
You people make me sick!
Who the hell twists seals? Leave the sea doggos alone! All they want to do is catch some rays and eat fishies…
1 Like