With the reduction in pve ilvl that is coming to pvp gear in 9.1, I see no reason why the honor point requirements for a set of honor gear should remain as high as they were in season 1. Especially since the upgrades will be limited by renown levels again, 43 for rank 5, 59 for rank 7. PvE gear will not be in danger of being trivialized by 203/216 honor gear that is gated behind weeks of renown. +3s drop 216 and are spammable.
I made this table to show the honor point requirements for WOD vs Shadowlands for a set of honor gear. As you can see the shadowlands gear is much more expensive compared to the WOD gear, about 3.3 times. A reduction to the WoD honor levels should be implemented especially since honor gear is starter gear for the pvp climb.
| WOD |
|
|
Shadowlands |
|
| Slot |
Honor Cost |
|
Slot |
Honor Cost |
| Head |
2250 |
|
Head |
7125 |
| Neck |
1250 |
|
Neck |
4275 |
| Shoulders |
1750 |
|
Shoulders |
5700 |
| Cloak |
1250 |
|
Cloak |
4275 |
| Chest |
2250 |
|
Chest |
7125 |
| Wrist |
1250 |
|
Wrist |
4275 |
| Gloves |
1750 |
|
Gloves |
5700 |
| Belt |
1750 |
|
Belt |
5700 |
| Legs |
2250 |
|
Legs |
7125 |
| Boots |
1750 |
|
Boots |
5700 |
| Ring 1 |
1250 |
|
Ring 1 |
4275 |
| Ring 2 |
1250 |
|
Ring 2 |
4275 |
| Medalion |
1750 |
|
Medalion |
4275 |
| 2nd trink |
1750 |
|
2nd trink |
5700 |
| Weapon |
3500 |
|
Weapon |
14250 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Total |
|
|
Total |
|
27000 |
|
|
89775 |
21 Likes
Reduction of honor costs and also removing renown gates.
13 Likes
To be fair I think honor gains were also not as high in WoD. Looking at a few old screenshots it looks like randoms gave 120-150 for a win and anywhere from 0-50ish for a loss. That’s a lot less than you’re getting now, especially if you are alliance or are doing epics.
Not excusing the honor costs mind you, they are ridiculous considering WoD honor gear was competitive and SL s2 gear will be less useful than world content gear even with the in-pvp ilvl buff. They really need to make honor gear competitive enough again (like, within 10ilvl of the topmost gear while in PvP) and lower the costs too.
6 Likes
I think in WoD since you had the garrison spitting out honor gains that is why honor gains were throttled.
But overall honor gear is starter gear and should not take so long to obtain a starter set.
As I said in beta cut the honor costs in half as a starting point.
6 Likes
You could also go into ashran and farm artifact fragments for honor, I remember fully gearing alts in a single day doing that for a few hours. ah those were the days.
5 Likes
And there was also a green PVP gear set too. The lower PVP gear sets were easier to acquire and also had more stamina. Garrison awarded PVP and PVE gear easily for mains and alts too.
5 Likes
I think wod was when they introduced the loot boxes at the end of BGs, they contained gear that was slightly below honor gear but it was still something to fill slots with.
from wowhead
" Random Battleground Strongboxes: these drop from random battlegrounds whether you win or lose. Strongboxes are awarded at different point levels in battlegrounds, so at 500 points you’ll get a Bronze Strongbox , 1000 points will award a Silver Strongboxand winning the battleground with 1500 points will grant you a Gold Strongbox. These strongboxes have a higher chance to award better gear as they increase in quality, so a Gold box is more likely to have Honor-level gear in it."
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/gearing/pvp-gearing-guide-for-warlords-of-draenor
1 Like
I actually found this screenshot from MoP. Gear costs were the same as in WoD. 450ish honor for a win from a BG, when PvP chest cost 2200 honor, not too bad. I remember I could fill in 1-2 slots per day BGing for sure.
2 Likes
Seems about right. Here’s one of the WoD screenshots I was looking at, a ToK on my warlock:
Like the other said though, WoD had a lot of alternatives for getting honor which is probably why the rewards for BGs were lower. MoP only really had randoms and I think Isle of Thunder dailies? I know they gave conquest, not sure about honor.
Both expansions had honor gear that was more than competitive and extremely easy to get though, both factors need to return if they aren’t gonna do templates.
2 Likes
I have some data from an addon called REFlex which tracks stats from the BGs ive done on my main, honor gains being one of them.
When i take the average of all my games (wins and losses) i get 253 honor per game. That might be higher than other players since i have a decent W/L ratio as i usually queue with friends. So assuming i started fresh and had the same average honor per game it would take me 354 random battlegrounds to get all of 89k honor required. That is ridiculous for starter gear.
I also have info about my game duration using the average of 10min 30sec it would take me 62 hours to gear up in full honor gear.
For WoD honor prices, it would take 106 games and roughly 19 hours.
6 Likes
Gladiator sanctum also awarded PVP gear too.
3 Likes
I’m not sure why exactly you keep responding to me like I’m defending it. In every post I’ve made I’ve acknowledged it’s bad and needs to change.
I know your not defending it, i’m just providing some evidence that shadowlands honor gains are sucky for what the gear cost are. That sentence you quoted was more directed at the dev team lol
2 Likes
To be fair, getting your entire Honor set was about 7-10 hours played in WoD. And that honor set was only 15 ilvl below the conquest gear (which had no rating requirements) and unrated PvP even gave conquest.
Imagine being able to get a full set of 211 gear in just 7 hours. That is what WoD was like.
1 Like
I don’t ever remember it being 7 hours /played unless you got really lucky with frags in Ashran. Certainly not through BGs. WoD gearing was fast and easy but you don’t need to exaggerate.
I know exactly what WoD was like - I played all 3 seasons extensively in all facets of PvP. Thanks for the attempted history lesson I guess?
1 Like
Yeah, with PVE/PVP scaling, I don’t see any reason why we couldn’t do something like this:
The gear will still be “starter” in PVE, and high enough in PVP to actually be able to play the game without first grinding for weeks like it’s a second job.
This, and rating gate removal seem like no-brainers now that PVE/PVP scaling is in.
But I feel like we’re just beating a dead horse at this point. These things have been blowing up on the forums for months now, and the PVP interview basically ignored it.
I feel like most PVP players are in it for the PVP, not for the gear and grind. Maybe that’s just me. Sub runs out in 3 days, I’ll be back when PVP isn’t a PVE style grind anymore.
3 Likes
We have been asking for a WoD gearing copy since the beta forums, so yeah it’s probably not gonna change at this point. It’s a shame honestly, PvP could be so much better with little effort but they seem to like it the way it is with the people (and $$$) that it attracts.
3 Likes
If I PvP for a day on a fresh 60, I will get ~1500 Honor per hour. Lets say a day is 8 hours, so I’m looking at 12k Honor. I can get a full set of 158 gear and upgrade half of the items. Ilvl is going to be around 160.
If I PvE for a full day (8 hours) as a fresh 60, I can complete my covenant campaign, get a 194 weapon, get my covenant armor set, use gained anima during questing to upgrade as many items as possible. I’ll finish with ilvl around 180, depending on trinket and ring choices. Which, honestly, you can buy decent ilvl jewelry off the AH with vers.
Something is seriously wrong with the PvP path.
2 Likes
