Red/Green Eye Colours for DK’s

When there is an exception to the rule, you can no longer make absolute claims about said rule, such as “X is Death Knight a trainer, therefore X is a Death Knight.” The rule obviously doesn’t hold up at that point, and becomes a general guideline, and not a hard line of logic as you tried to present it. Being a Death Knight is clearly not a requirement for our training, and lore-wise, we learned our magics from three separate sources: Blood from the San’layn, Frost from liches, and Unholy from general necromancy. We are not the sole purveyors of this knowledge.

Let’s look at your exact words again and see if I’m actually being disingenuous.

This literally argues that the color association of each spec somehow didn’t happen until after Wrath because we weren’t locked into singular specs prior. Which makes absolutely no sense for what should be obvious reasons. There is no misunderstanding of the words you wrote. If what you wrote is not what you actually meant, then that’s on you.

I understand that you’re essentially trying to argue here that this Unholy trainer has “enough points in Blood” to have red eyes, but that’s a self defeating point. They’d be clearly slanted towards Blood then, so why would they be the Unholy trainer? And I guess by comparison our Blood trainer doesn’t have enough points in Blood for red eyes, or isn’t as trained in it as the Unholy trainer? It’s all very nonsensical when put in perspective. Lady Alistra is an outlier, and we have no explanation why at present, only a few educated guesses; but it’s clearly not a class centric thing when she’s the only example. And weren’t you the one who just argued that exceptions don’t stop the norm?

Again, because the arguments don’t hold up. You’re trying justify an unexplained exception as a norm. And you’re actually being dishonest with this line, given that you lump in green eyes and claim them as “apparent” as if they already exist on some other trainer somewhere. They don’t.

And you absolutely do harm the class fantasy when you want to throw in things that screw around with, or don’t make sense within the lore or magical system, and frankly have no justification other than just because you want the pretty colors to match.

Nice strawman; no one made this numbers argument. The only thing needed for customization or cosmetic options is probable cause, and not unique circumstances. A single character with “X” unexplained trait is most certainly not probable cause, let alone the dubiousness of said character fitting within the group you’re then trying to apply the trait to in the first place.

The Death Knight lore is kind of getting thrown off the bridge lately anyways. The Lich King raised playable Death Knights, we however do not know about these other trainies. There is the Cult of the Damned which was a religion based on people following the Lich King on their own. If thats the case some of them could have learned magics, the ones raised by the Lich King however had no choice and didnt really go through any training. They had to create a rune blade, pummel the crap out of a trainee basically, kill a loved on and then attack Lights Hope. They were under the control of the Lich King, raised to be commanders of his armies. Its a totally different magic entirely that was used in creating player Death Knights. They even suggested that there is a reason why DK’s (the players) have blue eyes at Blizzcon when the Shadowlands cinematic and Bolvar went blue.

Back in wrath as well, they were death knights with a focus on a spec. The base class was apparent in each spec and the focus is what changed. Now we basically have 3 separate classes and hardly any overlap.

This is not necessarily true, as an exception to the rule does not disprove it nor does it make it absolute. DK’s are a former of greater undead, and it is not the first time we have seen DK’s with a different eye color.
Give our mounts change color with spec, roviding this flexibility to the character is perfectly acceptable.

That is a strawman, as no such argument is presented. The statement is purely that the eye color is independent of your “spec”. So that makes the entirety of your response pointless as it was presumptuous of you.

It does not need to be explained. There is no intimate scientific explanation for eye colors in the wow universe. They simply are, and no one requires an explanation unless for some reason, there is a request for more. Which makes absolutely no sense.

This is again, a presumption on your case. There is no rule, no story, that says only 1 eye color can be placed on a DK.
There isno lore that says “DK’s can only have this eye color” or “magic color”. This a case of a catch 22.
If there is no precedent, you can’t request it.
At the same time, you claim no precedent can ever be created because it needs to be justified (it doesnt)…

That you did.

That is indeed a numbers argument as it uses the notion of “well this isn’t common enough so it makes no sense to provide it” as an assumption. It may not have been your intention, but that is the interpretation.

All you have said is “it doesn’t fit what I THINK the clas fantasy is so we shouldn’t have it”, and created arbitrary barriers that clearly do not exist.

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That is all.

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No, it doesn’t fit the lore. Blizzard stated that dk blue eyes is for a specific reason. The green eyes of the blood elves were specific due to the feel corruption of the sunwell and when the sunwell was cleansed their eye color turned gold. Eye glow does have lore reasons it would seem. So why would dk eye colors change based on spec when they draw power from the Shadowlands according to this new lore for Shadowlands?

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I would like the quote if you have it.

This is getting old.
The sunwell was destroyed so there was no fel corruption from the sunwell..

When the sunwell was re-ignited, it was equal parts arcane and holy. Golden eyes therefore, became an option.
Now with SL customization, blood elves can also get access to blue and other colors.

This is unsupported entirely.

By this logic, why does their mount change color according to spec? If they draw power from shadowlands, we should petition they remove the colors which are very visual, from their mount.

There is no lore saying they cannot have red/green/other eye colors. That is a foolish argument being used to restrain DK’s from having access to more customization options. SImple as that.

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I’d like to see red eyes available for Orcs. Faintly glowing red eyes. -nod nod-

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So Bolvar eyes turning blue the moment he starts using his lich king powers doesn’t count as lore supporting their claims? Or the Arthas lich king blue eyes as well? It is what it is, and most dks like our ghostly blue eyes, it IS part of our lore and identity, it has been since dks came to be.
Just because you want more colors doesn’t mean you should get it. And no amount of reaching, wich is exactly what you are doing, is going to change it.

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His eyes were red red before hand and he was already wearing the helm of domination, while commanding the undead to attack. If anything, during the cinematic he only turns blue when he starts using frost based magic.

How about Thassarian’s non-glowing white eyes in art and the like? This is a cae of cherry picking, and again, unless there is lore saying
“They can only have blue eyes” then it means the potential is there.

Cool story, this simply sound like an excuse of “I don’t like change and I want it to stay this way.”. I mean, based on your logic, the DK mount should only be blue and no other color. So clearly, Blizz doesn’t agree.
More options is a good thing, and clinging to perceived notions with little backing doesn’t work.

OH and FYI

Teron Gorefiend, a DK, portrayed with redeyes.
Several DK’s? White or yellow eyed NPCs including Thane Korazz
DK units in WC2? Red eyes
Elderguard Brennan? Depicted with yelllow eyes.
Valeera the Hollow? Purple. (non-canon)

Eye color is not strictly blue, nor should it be.

This notion of something not being available without precedent fails, because precedent isn’t a necessity, and you’re stating it is impossible to create a precedent. DKs didnt have glowing blue eyes until they did. By your logic. They should be red

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Nope, his eyes were red due to to Alexstrasza flames effect on him. It turned blue the moment he started using LICH KING powers, not frost powers, at least as far as I know lifting rocks and throwing it is not frost based… at all.

Thassarian non glowing eyes is probably just an oversight from blizard, that’s all, stop reaching.

OH and FYI:

Teron Gorenfiend? First generation death knight, wich of course you don’t know, is something totally diferent than the death knights we play, so that argument is invalid.

Seeveral DKs? Wich ones? DK units in WC 2 are ALSO not the same Death Knights in WOW.

Elderguard Brennan? Quick google search showed his card with blue eyes.

Valeera the Hollow? Well you said yourself, non cannon, and also, her first line on hearthstone wiki says she is a legendary rogue hero card.

Now, by my logic they should be red? Cool story. You reach too much, know almost nothing about DK lore to even cite Teron Gorenfiend and WC 2 dks. The eyes are part of our class fantasy AND identity. Now stop already, we like it that way.

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Right right, I’ll give you that one i forgot he was toasty boy too.
Furthermore, yes it turns blue the moment he uses frost based power.
Throwing rocks is telekinetic and there really is no color associated with it. We see plenty toss it around despite being practitioners of various things.

Thassarian has been portrayed this way across multiple forms of Blizzard media. Stop being in denial bud.

First gen DK’s are created through unholy magic just as third gen DK’s are created by unholy magic. They are all classified as DK’s and the only difference is when they were raised.

Is it, or is it not a DK? You’re simply trying to say “well this doesntcount” but acn’t say why

`https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/thumb/3/32/Elderguard_brennan.jpg/765px-Elderguard_brennan.jpg?version=197757525e046fea53ca41c1b0371937

If you say so.

We? You mean you. Don’t speak for anyone but yourself bud.

You have done nothing to counter my points besides say"stop reaching" “you dont know anything about lore.”.

Those aren’t counter arguments. They hold the same weight as telling someone to shut up.
Oh, and FYI, the DK troll in the unholy area has yellow eyes. @_@

Cite your source that says DK’s can only have blue eyes, and that the blue eyes and NOTHING else is an absolute partof the class identity.
You won’t…because it doesnt exist…
and the DK fantasy has always portrayed different eye colors of yellow and red with the blue color being the most recent.

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Lol first gen death knights are literally orc warlocks possessing human bodies, you really know nothing about the topic to have an opinion on the matter. So yeah, WC 2 and Teron Gorenfiend? NOPE.

The Thassarian eyes subject have already been discussed to death, and yeah it was mostly agreed to be an oversight.

Elderguard Brennan:
`https://colnect.com/br/trading_card_games/trading_card_game/66648-Elderguard_Brennan-Crown_of_the_Heavens-World_of_Warcraft_TCG

First link.

Bolvar eyes doesn’t turn the moment he uses frost powers, it turns the moment he starts going full lich king on Sylvannas.

And no, it’s not only me, as you can see in this topic there’s plenty people defending blue eyes. And this subject already been discussed over and over before.

This is really just you wanting something.

You ask me to cite sources, but none of what you did are valid. So you are kind of in the same boat buddy? And I say you are just reaching because that’s what you are, reaching, citing hearthstone sources, and first gen dks that have NOTHING in common with third gen dks at all, not the same proccess, not the same magic, not the same anything.

And yeah, I’m gonna say it again, you don’t know anything about dk lore.

And it is part of our identity. Just beause you don’t consider the both lich king trailers proof enough, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

And I can reach just like you! I mean, why did blizzard made dk eyes even more close to the lich king’s eyes if it isn’t part of our class identity?

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What do you think a DK is? A being who has been reanimated. Whose soul has been put into a body.
Those orc warlocks took over and reanimated those bodies.
That is exactly what Teron Gorefend did.

I find it hilarious you claim “I know nothing” but then play the game of semantics as if it changes what occurred or changes the fact that bLizzard considers him a DK all the same.

The player base =/= blizzard devs. Sorry. Simply because you agree to something does not make it so.

`https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/thumb/3/32/Elderguard_brennan.jpg/765px-Elderguard_brennan.jpg?version=197757525e046fea53ca41c1b0371937

Cool, here is the picture again…because you…seem to think what you saw means what I linked stopped existing.

Which…also primarily include frost powers.
Let alone he is ALWAYS lich king mode because of the helm of domination

This is an appeal to popularity argument and it does not bare noting. You can only speak for yourself and not others.
Otherwise, I can do the same and say “well we want them because it works in line with class identity.”.
It is dual edged argument that goes nowhere.

Yes…that…is why I am supporting why we should have it. Just like you dont want it.

Did…you forget that until Shadowland, your eyes are still connected to your face? They can’t give you the option to change eye colors without giving you a new head. Like they did for blood elves.

The rest of your argument proceeding is you simply trying to push your personal standards as a way of dismissing valid arguments. If you cannot address them are counter my examples, simply say so and say “well I dont want it.”.
That i fine if you dont want it.

but by that logic, is blue is a defining thing for DK’s…since…LK and all…then you should ask the devs to remove every DK with a different eye color, and remove the color swap from our mount since red and green arent ever represented for eyes.

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sigh

What’s up with these forums and eye color obssession.

It would be great to have the option to manifest the spec’s power through the eyes!

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“Every DK with different eye color” you mean the 2 they made an oversight?

What do you think a DK is? A being who has been reanimated. Whose soul has been put into a body.
Those orc warlocks took over and reanimated those bodies.
That is exactly what Teron Gorefend did.

Man… that was a totally different magic used… Stop reaching using first gen dks as your source. Reanimation and body possession are two very different things in wow. And well, every other game for that matter. Fel Magic =/= Scourge

The player base =/= blizzard devs. Sorry. Simply because you agree to something does not make it so.

Same can be said about your theories.

Which…also primarily include frost powers.
Let alone he is ALWAYS lich king mode because of the helm of domination

Where is your source on that?

The rest of your argument proceeding is you simply trying to push your personal standards as a way of dismissing valid arguments. If you cannot address them are counter my examples, simply say so and say “well I dont want it.”.
That i fine if you dont want it

That is EXACTLY what you are doing. Your arguments are invalid the moment you cite first gen death knights, who doesn’t even belong to the scourge, have no connection to the lich king, and are well… warlocks, you know, fel magic and all.

I mean…I’ve listed more than 2 but okay, I guess we’re playing a numbers game. In which case, eye color customization shouldn’t be a thing for anyone because there are no blood elves with purple eyes. Even though that is exactly what is happening..

You mean…the magic used to manipulate a soul after death and put it back in the body? The same death magic type sourced from the Shadowlands? Mmkay.

So Teron Gorefiend did NOT reanimate during TBC. Gotcha.

I am using what is from official blizzard art and what is shown in game. Until they say otherwise, its purposeful. You know…because…they have to look at it.

The end of WotLK where he taks the helm of domination to control the undead scourge? The helm of domination that is the source of the Lich kings power? As has been said since WC2?
He is always in LK mode, because if he wasnt,t he scourge does as it pleases.

You do realize they were using necromancy…which is death magic yes?
You are only complaining about what I am using to support my argument, not actually countering my points to demonstrate the lack of validity.
Essentially you’re saying “using bricks as a building material is bad because I say so.”

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fel magic and necromancy are not the same thing.
if you look up the warcraft magic chart it breaks down the different areas certain fields of magic fall
necromancy is death magic, fel is disorder

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You do realize they were using necromancy…which is death magic yes?
You are only complaining about what I am using to support my argument, not actually countering my points to demonstrate the lack of validity.
Essentially you’re saying “using bricks as a building material is bad because I say so.”

I’m not complaining, your are trying to backup your arguments using death kngihts that have nothing in common with our current death knights, with completely different proccess of making. They aren’t the same thing. And it is official, you can look it up if you want.

I am using what is from official blizzard art and what is shown in game. Until they say otherwise, its purposeful. You know…because…they have to look at it.

Both trailers showing the lich king are official blizard art, yet you chose to ignore them every time. Our current death knights are supposed to be based of the lich king.

And blizard DO divide their magic types. Fel Magic and Scourge Magic are very different things. Fel was created to combat the scourge.

I am not saying they are the same. I am saying that warlocks were using death magic, which is what they have done in the past. Same for Necromancers who specialize in it.

You pretty much did say they are the same

I am not saying they are the same. I am saying that warlocks were using death magic, which is what they have done in the past. Same for Necromancers who specialize in it.

Warlocks do not use only fel magic.

You’re saying that, but you’re the only one making disparaging commentary because I do not agree with you.

I have not ignored them. I have literally cited current death knights who have different eye colors who were brought back by the lich king. You have chosen to instead say “well blizzard made an error” with no actual commentary to support it. That is simply arguing in bad faith dude.

I mean…if you use death magic to make first gen…and death magic for second…and death magic for third…and death magic for 4th.

And even if we ignore the first gen…we have second gen to draw from who were also made by the LK.
If you want to ignore second gen, you still have 3rd gens with different eye colors.
havent done the 4th gen DK scenaro though.

Having more options doesnt take away from the DK fantasy. It only adds to it. A blood DK specializes in death magic. SO much so his mount turns red. Why not his eyes?

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Because it wouldn’t make sense. The same power that flowed through Arthas. The power that he used to reanimate Sindragosa. The power that was revealed in his undead minions in the Wrath of the Lich King cinematic flows through all 3rd gen DKs.

The colors of the mounts ARE tied to spec. That has nothing to do with the color of our eyes. Shoot, the Frostbrood Vanquishers came in red as well as blue. Of course the power reanimating them is blue for both.