Rebuilding the Moon Guard Horde, a Roleplayers Perspective

[anon94375643]

Hey all! Shaanis here yet again!

So in recent months I had been looking towards Moon Guard to try and rebuild the horde community there, but we have run into several situations that have been talked about repeatedly on several major discords.

It really is concerning hearing the feedback from several community leaders in regards to one aspect and I wanted to make this more public so we can all kinda discuss how this could be resolved.

Disagreements between how the community was run in the past coupled with an expansion that crippled peoples views on the horde, a mass exodus to Wyrmrest Accord… Multiple discords popping up, so on and so fourth have all culminated into one major thing at least I see personally.

At first glance the community is small but under the surface it appears fragmented and broken, I would see to this being repaired because I have a great love for Moon Guard and everyone within it… even certain guard guilds ally side.

I started on Moon Guard towards the tail end of WoD on a Draenei mage, then hopped over to the hustling and bustling horde at the time! Where I fell in love with a guild I joined and was happy for a few months.

Then came a day I woke up to find with no explanation my guild leader moved to Wyrmrest Accord with the guild for no apparent reason and I could not find them anymore.

After several years, I’d just decided to go play on WrA as well seeing as the horde on MG was kinda dying out quick. But I did keep checking in with the hope that the horde would recover, it never did and things only got worse.

So now here we are, I moved to MG because I wanted to play Ally again but also got the desire to help boost the horde as best as I can! With that I have a drive to help my server recover and see the home I loved and cherished restored.

So I ask you all, what can we do to solve this? How can we put the differences in leadership aside? Is it possible to have one unified discord promoting a healthy and open MG horde community?

But first and foremost, how can we raise moral and get back what was lost?

• Love Shaanis

[Solflame-moon-guard (Solflame)]

So, one of the issues you bring up is the abundance of Horde discords and communities. Personally, I think this is actually the most common sentiment I see that I think creates a continuous problem:

@anon94375643

I had been looking towards Moon Guard to try and rebuild the horde community there

A noble sentiment, but this ranges from good intentions to actual savior complexes of people who think they will be “the one” to bring some activity to Moon Guard Horde. I’ve been through several different servers that all do the exact same thing, are populated by almost the exact same people, and frankly do nothing to innovate that is worthy of the multiple servers. The difference? It’s the people running it.

Plenty of newcomers walk up onto the stage with not only the intention of helping the server, but also some impression that they are the ones doing it when in reality, almost every Horde server is exactly the same, and continues to hit the same hurdles. They try to make competition where it does not need to exist, they isolate from other communities rather than integrate into one another, and of course the leaders are always different partially because someone wants to do it differently or their way.

Realistically, the only way to foster roleplay is to just roleplay. Play as you normally would, give people to latch something onto, and make sure people know about it too. There is no magic elixir to reanimate Moon Guard Horde, and really no server I’ve seen thus far has struck some mythical gold mine on how to fix things. It’s running in circles and chasing down the source of the problem, when the problem really is just a matter of not having the people on and active to roleplay.

So my take on what to do is basically just keep doing what everyone has been doing. Keep running events, keep meeting up for roleplay, keep advertising and asking if folks want to join. I also think mindset plays a huge role; if our idea of “active” is to just look like Wyrmrest Accord, then of course we’re going to be disappointed and think nothing is being done or changing. Frankly, I think Moon Guard Horde is actually seeing a lot of progress from how dead it could really get at times. It’s just a matter of perspective and setting goals that are reasonable for the community.

@anon94375643

How can we put the differences in leadership aside? Is it possible to have one unified discord promoting a healthy and open MG horde community?

As for this, hypothetically you could. But that requires a level of coexistence that is going to be difficult with people who have bad histories. A lot of the bad blood goes a bit deeper than just differences in belief, there are some bad apples in every community and Moon Guard Horde is no exception. In some cases, there’s genuine hurt going on behind the roleplay, between us as people. That requires some conversation and time to come to terms with the disagreements.

As for just differences in leadership? Yeah, that should be integrated. The idea of merging servers might be a bit ambitious, but there are some communities out there that I think just do the same thing as one another and ultimately could afford to feed their population to another and serve the same purpose. That, again, requires the leaders to sit down and discuss what’s similar, what’s different, and find a cozy synthesis of good things to implement. It would be nice to have a more unified community rather than having so many servers that we have more branching paths than the fraying end of a rope.

TL;DR: Roleplaying normally is how you solve inactivity, and leaders of communities need to take time to communicate with one another about integration if we want to handle the abundance of servers.

[Mirchea-moon-guard (Mirchea)]

TL;DR: Roleplaying normally is how you solve inactivity…

Exactly. This SS was taken at midnight ST. Prior to this I’d been standing there by myself for about a half hour. People saw me and came over, and they attracted more people.

https://i.imgur.com/wxFoetS.jpg

Is it the same activity level as WRA? No. Do I think it will ever be? Probably not. Do I think that’s a problem? Not necessarily. We’re not WRA. We don’t have to be like them. We can and in fact do bring different things to the table. I like not being drowned in text. Would more people be great? Absolutely. But it’s not going to happen instantly, and that’s another thing I see as an issue…

…people want things to be instant. No one wants to be that person who stands there doing nothing for 30 minutes or more. No one wants to be that person to start an event, and have little to no one show up the first few times. Yes, it can be disheartening, but these things take time, patience, advertising, and work, but no one seems to want to do that. Which leads into yet another thing.

The people who do put in that work, somehow get called ‘community leaders’, and somehow the entire half of the server gets judged by them and their words or actions (same thing happens A-side, too - not unique to Horde, or MG either). Guess what? There are no leaders. Just people who run different projects, Discord servers, or guilds. Just because someone mods a Discord server, or runs a public event, or GMs a large guild, or is even very visible in the community in-game, does not make them some sort of person we all answer to or uphold as some ‘pillar’. People really need to stop idolizing others and putting them on pedestals, looking to these people to do everything for them, or judging an entire population by the words and actions of a few. These are regular human beings who put their pants on one leg at a time every day just like everyone else.

If you see a hole that can be filled with an event you want to do, do it. Absolutely ask those people for advice or help if you need it - most of them are quite nice, and actually really happy to help others succeed because 99% of us want to see our community grow and be successful and welcome new people and new ideas.

That’s my 2c. I’ve already responded to other points in the main post elsewhere.

[Solflame-moon-guard (Solflame)]

@Mirchea-moon-guard

The people who do put in that work, somehow get called ‘community leaders’, and somehow the entire half of the server gets judged by them and their words or actions

Another part of what perpetuates the divide in all roleplaying communities is the notion of clout and influence. I’ve never been fond of anyone hoisting themselves up as a self-proclaimed leader of the community or someone who does all the help. It doesn’t feel like a genuine effort to help; it feels like yet another entry to the popularity contest that roleplaying often becomes. “Power” in a roleplaying community is often a source of division in itself, and tends to be the most subject to scrutiny, disagreement, and subsequent divide into cliques within a greater community.

It doesn’t help that “leaders” as a construct of the community often end up becoming a really isolating experiences. A lot of the people we hoist up as “leaders” are really just people you see often enough around the Tail and receive enough attention that people end up just flocking to them and considering them to be great. Some people deserve the accolades they get. Others have us all fooled. But either way, the reasoning for it turns it away from actual merit and into just plain popularity, and I think we can guess how it feels to not be the “popular kid”. It sucks, and having leaders that are clearly just popular folks can be really isolating for roleplayers just trying to make their way through the crowd.

We can welcome the help of coordinators, organizers, and DMs without building them statues to shadow over everyone else. Valuing the hard work of DMs and event coordinators doesn’t necessarily mean deifying them and making them bigger than they really are. It’s just appreciating one another for the work folks put into their passions.

[Mirchea-moon-guard (Mirchea)]

A friend mentioned that my point in my post above might not have been clear (understandable since it is 2AM and I am currently in a great deal of pain);

…basically, don’t be afraid to do your own thing, start your own event, guild, project, whatever. Don’t be afraid to be that person standing there /waving to random people who run by. Invite people to come join you. Ask others for help or advice on how to do things.

You don’t have to be a ‘big name’ to do cool stuff or contribute to the community.

[Ïantha-moon-guard (Ïantha)]

Agreeing with the points alread made, but most especially “role-playing begets role-playing”. I’m not sure I would have had the patience Mirch did, standing there for an hour alone, but 20 or 30 mins? Sure, why not. I’m not the biggest fan of Org as an RP spot, but I get it (traffic, central hub, etc.)

On a related note, I’m hoping that the guild expo this Sunday is a little livelier than the last one, which was before the expac dropped. It would be a breath of fresh air to see some “guild shoppers” around!

[Thiji-wyrmrest-accord]

@Solflame-moon-guard

Plenty of newcomers walk up onto the stage with not only the intention of helping the server, but also some impression that they are the ones doing it when in reality, almost every Horde server is exactly the same, and continues to hit the same hurdles. They try to make competition where it does not need to exist, they isolate from other communities rather than integrate into one another, and of course the leaders are always different partially because someone wants to do it differently or their way.

While I can concur with this statement, I myself am a newcomer to this Realm, but I don’t mean to do something so grandiose as to put myself on a pedestal. If one is to make a name for themselves in any community, it definitely takes a significant time investment. I can attest to this as someone who has been playing FFXIV since its relaunch 7 years ago.

And though I know this is a Horde-focused topic, I still try to get both factions involved with my roleplay as I hate having to omit the opposing team even in spite of differences.

[Solflame-moon-guard (Solflame)]

Good stuff for sure. The best way to help the community really is just to be a part of it and interact.

I’m not a paragon of this of course, I’m not all that active on Horde of late due to guild things, but that’s all the community needs really, active folks just hanging out and inviting others to do so, as Mirch demonstrated above.

[Darvile-moon-guard (Darvile)]

@Solflame-moon-guard

I’m not a paragon of this of course, I’m not all that active on Horde of late due to guild things, but that’s all the community needs really, active folks just hanging out and inviting others to do so

Hey no one needs to beat themselves up over not being present all the time.
Or let someone else shame them about it.
Do what you can when you can because

@Mirchea-moon-guard

You don’t have to be a ‘big name’ to do cool stuff or contribute to the community.

this x eleventy jillion
Even the smallest action to be in the moment when you can helps.

[Zarastia-moon-guard]

Honestly, as one of those newcomers to the ‘stage’ as it would be and trying to organize events. I attempt one on a monthly basis. Traction has been slow… and sometimes its depressing and defeating. Then I remember my character… Zarastia Redblade, noble San’layn Knight who takes no crap from nobody.

"Peasants of Orgrimmar…Be blessed, for I am here."

I talk to a lot of people who -want- to RP but are shy, or feel the Horde community isn’t really as welcoming as it seems. I can’t fault them for that, because if I wasn’t as confident and headstrong as I am, the obvious cliques would have driven me away.

So yeah, standing around on the Tail’s porch, trying to RP might be one way, but I’ve seen groups just go on and kind of ignore new characters on the scene, or even worse, treat them poorly or with some form of contempt.

So if it’s anyone’s intention to actually rebuild the community, then some walking needs to be done and not just talking. If guilds actually intend on recruiting people and for these guild expo type events to be successful, then they should present themselves as willing to be apart of the community, rather than just showing up to scoop up potential new members and then screwing off to their own dark corner to RP amongst themselves, never to be seen or heard from again… and there are quite a few guilds like this in the “Horde Community”.

It’s going to take being actually inclusive and accepting, to a degree. Not all characters are likable ICly, but they should at least be interacted with and folded in to the mix with the rest of the hustle.

[Mirchea-moon-guard (Mirchea)]

@Zarastia-moon-guard

If guilds actually intend on recruiting people and for these guild expo type events to be successful, then they should present themselves as willing to be apart of the community, rather than just showing up to scoop up potential new members and then screwing off to their own dark corner to RP amongst themselves, never to be seen or heard from again…

VERY agreed. I wish more guilds did engaging public events, though I understand why most don’t (hint: drama. Always someone causing drama…or people are afraid someone might cause drama. I’ve seen more of that than actual drama at public events, including my own).

There’s also a communication issue. I can definitely see Shaanis’s point - for new people, it is hard to figure out where to start, and get a foot in edgewise into the community, such that it is. Some of us are trying to at least try to fix that with the New to MG Horde Discord, and establish it as a sort of gateway into the broader community. I’ll be revising the other-Discords channel in there soon, and am also currently working on a website to front for our community calendar that will also be a portal not only to view it, but to submit events to it without having to DM someone on Discord, and I’ll also be making a forum post for it that I hope to get stickied.

I feel like there’s a lot we can do for our community, it’s just people don’t have the time, gumption, or know-how to do the things, or they’re afraid to do so because of judgement from others or fear of drama…

[Flywheel-moon-guard-10349 (Flywheel)]

MG Horde needs less people saying “you guys should create more RP” and more people saying, “here’s the event I’m running, please come join me” or “please meet my character, I’ll be available at this place and this time for casual RP”.

It’s not rocket science to figure out what MG Horde needs. However, it is difficult to get people to take initiative and stop waiting for others to do the work for them.

[Solflame-moon-guard (Solflame)]

@Mirchea-moon-guard

Some of us are trying to at least try to fix that with the New to MG Horde Discord, and establish it as a sort of gateway into the broader community.

That’s what I always felt it was good for when I was involved in it, I mostly held that as far as its purpose went in the grand scheme of things, it was a great way to help offer folks a path to the broader Horde community.

@Flywheel-moon-guard-10349

It’s not rocket science to figure out what MG Horde needs. However, it is difficult to get people to take initiative and stop waiting for others to do the work for them.

It is difficult, yes, though some people want to be participants and can’t really do the task of being an organizer. Some folks don’t have the stamina to stick out the hours of quiet or host events for multitudes of people to come to, and are just more comfortable coming to the RP others make.

Honestly, something I touched on elsewhere in the discussions surrounding this was that positivity would actually go a long way, as cliché as that sounds. I remember when Silvermoon was active, yes, but I also remember when the Tail would go weeks without a hint of RP. I feel confident that I can expect to log in on a given day and find some folks hanging out now, and that’s progress. Recognizing the progress and what works, and what is going well, helps to actually appreciate what has been achieved rather than a bleak outlook that Moon Guard is dead because of our standards of comparison.

[Flywheel-moon-guard-10349 (Flywheel)]

It isn’t easy for any event organiser. It takes planning, consultation, and a ton of effort and motivation. Nor is it easy for someone to put themselves out there while others skulk in a corner and wait for others to engage them.

It’s not a matter of being easier for some people and harder for others. Taking initiative means wanting to make a meaningful difference and taking action to back up those words. Everyone struggles with the fear of rejection or being unsuccessful. That never goes away, regardless of your ‘status’ in the community.

But being proactive doesn’t have to mean running a mass event. All you have to do is offer yourself as available for RP on a discord or forum, or begin a conversation in game with one other person.

If everyone took the stance, ‘it’s too hard, I’ll sit back and let someone else do it’ then RP is never going to be created on MG Horde.

[Badvoodoo-moon-guard]

@Flywheel-moon-guard-10349

If everyone took the stance, ‘it’s too hard, I’ll sit back and let someone else do it’ then RP is never going to be created on MG Horde.

I think this is the most important take away that we all need to remember. Not just as individual players but as guilds as well. As someone pointed out earlier one big thing is people doing up for things like recruiting events only to be whisked away into seclusion.

The goal here is to fight the standard seen on other realms and in other games in general. But that means practicing what we preach and putting ourselves out there.

As for the most recent event touched upon I’ll add in my two cents from past experience both here in WoW and other MMOs and say it’s absolutely a huge task and draining one at that to be an event coordinator. It takes lots of work, energy, dedication, and sacrifice to put things together. As a community we can do our best by showing support for the events that are offered to us and if there are those with the means, ask how they can help.

I believe there is so much potential here waiting to be unleashed on the Horde community once more. I myself have a project in the works that I hope to start putting together soon. In the mean time if you see me around always feel free to say hello.

• Ka’shar

[Flywheel-moon-guard-10349 (Flywheel)]

Great post Ka’shar/Badvoodoo. I agree with everything you wrote.

It was great to see you pop up on NMGH and I’m really excited to see what you can bring to the MG Horde community!

I, for one, would love to learn more about your new project and will support it in any way I can.

MG Horde can be anything we make it, and I would love it if we could create our own style that made us slightly different from other RP servers.

[Telrenoir-moon-guard]

As someone who has been on MG Horde for a while, the fact that this thread isn’t filled with nothing but Alliance characters saying “Roll WrA, MG Horde is dead” like it would have been 3-4 years ago is very uplifting.

[Mirchea-moon-guard (Mirchea)]

Ha, we still get that on some Discord servers. Blizz’s rework of the forums seems to have driven lots of folks off of them; they’ve never made it very clear what the requirements are for reaching certain ‘tiers’ that allow you to do more things on the forums. I had to do a Google search to find a thread put up by someone in the General forums that detailed it all, and then Jab’trah also gave me a thread that’s over on the HotS forums that goes really in-depth on formatting.

But yeah it seems like the Alliance don’t use the forums as much. Kind of an untapped resource!

[Dreamrun-moon-guard]

I am quite happy to be on Horde MG. I don’t have an answer to your question other than I like to think that, even though I’m not a major figure here, I make a difference when I’m out in Thunderbluff mooin’ about. Will I branch out? Of course. I’m always interested in talking about RP or doing some RP and I know all I gotta do is ping some fool and tell them to meet me at some spot for RP.

[Elunerin-moon-guard]

I had just moved my Horde Hunter to WrA when I first read this post.

WrA has the same thing going on with Alliance that MG has with Horde.

After the mass migration of Horde to WrA and the PvP centric events of Legion many (most) of their already outnumbered Alliance moved to MG at an exponential rate. It became understood that Horde RPers make characters in WrA and Alliance in MG.

Can that change? Probably, with time and effort. But the question that lingers in my mind, is why?