RDF will come with Cata

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

@Snipy-faerlina

I mean, it’s literally for spam running non-end game dungeons.

No its not. In Wrath it was a type of catch up system to get good enough gear and it increased the pool of people that could raid. In retail spamming heroic dungeons are inefficient for any type of catch up. You dont even have to do M0 either to catch up in ilvl. You can get almost 400ilvl without ever setting foot in a dungeon and then jump into the raid.

The real argument is for Heroic dungeons, people are just adding on leveling sucks without RDF as icing on the cake. People in retail to get to max level quickly are spamming dungeons and its usually boring because a level 10 can do 5 times the damage of a level 45 because of the wonky scaling and they take hardly any damage. Its garbage.

The people that are gone are probably gone. As others have said too little too late. It shouldhave been put in when they released Titan Rune dungeons so people could actually get into heroics in a reasonable amount of time instead of not being able to do them at all. This is what happens when you see a problem and just address that problem instead of addressing the problem without creating new problems.

[Nowheelchair-stormrage]

@Kelliste-antonidas

The real argument is for Heroic dungeons, people are just adding on leveling sucks without RDF as icing on the cake. People in retail to get to max level quickly are spamming dungeons and its usually boring because a level 10 can do 5 times the damage of a level 45 because of the wonky scaling and they take hardly any damage. Its garbage.

The truest truth I ever seen on this forum in a while, especially about the scaling, its absolute trash.

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

Level 10 monk Spinning Crane Kick killing everything in seconds while a level 45 going through the rotation does almost nothing and you have to keep up and be in range to get any exp.

People that say go to retail for RDF never played retail… ever. I would say they never played wrath either.

[Nowheelchair-stormrage]

@Kelliste-antonidas

People that say go to retail for RDF never played retail… ever. I would say they never played wrath either.

Anybody believing Retail RDF experience is anything like WOTLK RDF experience probably didn’t play retail recently that is for sure, both games gameplay and overall power scaling is so different they are two 100% different games and WOTLK has the superior leveling experience by far.

[Misanthra-old-blanchy]

Retail scaling is a dual edged sword. Yes the weaker as you level sucks.

It also allowed a more streamlined run. there is no going to wowhead as hillsblad reaches you will die red. and now you are going to thousand needled for some inadequatety explored reason since yellow to you. there isn’t even a breadcrumb for this. its wowhead saying walk south a bit…lots of yellow quests for horde to clean out.

then back in hillsblad areas once managable to clean out those lingering quests.

retail you run can quest in a metamphorical straightline 1 to 60. Just keep on walking down the road as it were.

Or if you really liked going to 1000 needles…go ahead. Scaling jsut had it so if you wanted to stay you could. No need to cross the ocean to find a new yellow quest zone.

[Tesalyn-pagle]

@Nowheelchair-stormrage

@Tesalyn-pagle

No one has actually quit over lack of RDF.

Weird, every single people I know who was playing WOTLK quit because of no RDF including myself,

But everything else was kinda good/perfect for you guys?

[Nowheelchair-stormrage]

@Tesalyn-pagle

everything else was kinda good/perfect for you guys?

For me yes, I 100% enjoy WOTLK game play and I don’t hate anything about it really, only thing missing for me to truly enjoy the game is RDF.

I quit before they added Heroic+ or the Tokens, but if we had RDF since the beginning, I doubt I would have quit over those things.

I cannot say for my friends who return to play retail but, for the one who return to no life on random WOTLK private servers its probably the same for them, overall we all agree no RDF was a horrible idea and the difficulty and annoyance of finding groups is what made us quit in the end.

The only other option was to abandon the server we were playing on since Classic in 2019 and go on a mega server to actually find groups for dungeons, but nobody felt like starting over or spend money to transfer so we just all quit.

[Ziryus-pagle]

They’re probably going to shut wrath down like they did with TBC, the devs obviously don’t care in the slightest about it.

[Kastayoni-benediction]

better come with icc

[Snipy-faerlina]

@Kelliste-antonidas

its usually boring because a level 10 can do 5 times the damage of a level 45

I haven’t played Retail much since early BFA, but I did play for a while during Shadowlands from just before patch 9.2.5 and for its duration. Anyway, I noticed the scaling issues in dungeons where fresh level 10s do a ton of damage, and it peters out as you progress, but I’m not sure what makes this “boring.”

Yes, it’s a bit silly, and sure it seems like a side-effect of scaling, but it also is a system that solves all the issues of automating group finding.

@Kelliste-antonidas

The real argument is for Heroic dungeons

During the first couple of weeks of WotLK, before P1 raids were available, people ran Heroic Dungeon World Tours. That was a pretty fun time to run Heroic Dungeons. It wasn’t really long after that that Heroic Dungeons sort of became obsolete content to a large extent.

Looking at the Dungeon Finder tool in Retail, it’s difficult to see the perspective that the real argument is for Heroic Dungeons. Dungeon Finder is an automation tool which effectively automates parts of the game, namely leveling through dungeons with other player characters that serve the same purpose and role as NPCs could.

@Kelliste-antonidas

It shouldhave been put in when they released Titan Rune dungeons so people could actually get into heroics in a reasonable amount of time instead of not being able to do them at all.

So, for all the people who got to level 80 and for some reason didn’t want to do P1 raiding content, but wanted to do heroics to gear up for P1 content, then what? Stop playing that character and level a new character again?

Why not just do P1 raid content, gear up… run any H+ for particular items that you didn’t get from raid content that week, and then be ready to join your friends in the current raiding content?

Stating both that Dungeon Finder for leveling content is not the main thing, and that Heroic Instances are the main thing is confusing, imo. Perhaps your view is the majority view for those seeking RDF. Perhaps there’s a majority who wants to spend their time focused on running Heroic Dungeons. And perhaps they aren’t doing that now, but they would if there was a tool that automated it, because they really want to do that, but they don’t want to put any effort into it.

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

@Snipy-faerlina

I haven’t played Retail much since early BFA, but I did play for a while during Shadowlands from just before patch 9.2.5 and for its duration. Anyway, I noticed the scaling issues in dungeons where fresh level 10s do a ton of damage, and it peters out as you progress, but I’m not sure what makes this “boring.”

You dont see what makes being say level 49 getting grouped with low level players and they just do the dungeon for the other 4 people? A level 10 can pull half a dungeon and a boss and aoe them all down before you can get 3-5 abilities out. Its boring, its quick up to a point, but its boring.

@Snipy-faerlina

During the first couple of weeks of WotLK, before P1 raids were available, people ran Heroic Dungeon World Tours. That was a pretty fun time to run Heroic Dungeons. It wasn’t really long after that that Heroic Dungeons sort of became obsolete content to a large extent.

Thats true, but that means that new players or an alt when they get to 80 are thrust into the content everyone else is at.

@Snipy-faerlina

Looking at the Dungeon Finder tool in Retail

No one cares about retail RDF this is Wrath. The only people bringing up retail are the people with 0 arguments.

@Snipy-faerlina

So, for all the people who got to level 80 and for some reason didn’t want to do P1 raiding content, but wanted to do heroics to gear up for P1 content, then what?

What in the world are you talking about? A fresh tank… what are they supposed to do when they hit 80? What content are they supposed to do? H+? Not have the defense required? Low hit and expertise so they cant build threat and the run is a mess and people just leave?

@Snipy-faerlina

Why not just do P1 raid content, gear up

Heroics are P1 content but as you said earlier

@Snipy-faerlina

after that that Heroic Dungeons sort of became obsolete content

@Snipy-faerlina

run any H+ for particular items that you didn’t get from raid content that week

And how is a tank supposed to get into these groups?

@Snipy-faerlina

Stating both that Dungeon Finder for leveling content is not the main thing, and that Heroic Instances are the main thing is confusing, imo.

Than thats a you problem because many people understand it perfectly fine. Again the main reason people want RDF is for heroics at max level, leveling content is just icing on the cake to highlight that not having RDF is impacting the entire game and not just max level.

[Snipy-faerlina]

@Kelliste-antonidas

You dont see what makes being say level 49 getting grouped with low level players and they just do the dungeon for the other 4 people?

Yes, that’s right. Dude, you’re spam running the same dungeons over and over and over for years. Complaining about level 10s being op for a couple of levels while doing this is hard to understand (for me). But do keep in mind that while I’ve been through phases where all I wanted to do was spam run dungeons, that’s not where I’m at right now.

Also keep in mind that I’m not trying to say that your opinion is invalid and mine is correct. I’m trying to better understand what your opinion is, and what problems you are facing that you believe will be solved uniquely for Classic or whether they have been solved in Retail.

@Kelliste-antonidas

No one cares about retail RDF this is Wrath.

I mean, this may have been a meaningful thing to say in 2019 when WoW Classic first dropped, but we’re on the same path, doing things slightly differently this time, buts it’s very much a case of “here we go again.”

Doubtless for many people Retail started with the Dark Portal. For some, it’s Wrath. Others have stated Cataclysm, when changes to to the old world come is when Retail starts.

“Retail” is a very subjective concept while Classic seems to be an ideal. Unless of course we are simply stating that we currently have 3 iterations of the same game: Classic Era, Classic (WotLK Classic), WoW (Retail).

@Kelliste-antonidas

And how is a tank supposed to get into these groups?

Very easily. As someone who greatly enjoys tanking, there’s no reason for you to not be def capped and raid ready by the time you hit level 80. You can form a P1 raid 10m world tour, followed by a 25m world tour and that alone may well get you geared enough to start running Ulduar.

If you’re very late to the game, don’t know the raids, don’t feel confident or comfortable in your abilities to lead or tank, then go respec or use dual spec to get a backseat role and enjoy the ride.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Than thats a you problem because many people understand it perfectly fine.

Well, it’s not really a problem for me, unless I care to try to understand your point of view. I could easily have said it’s a contradictory statement, and it seems to misunderstand what RDF is, how it works and what it is intended for. Especially since the design decision going forward has been to remove automated grouping and teleporting to instances from end game PVE content.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Again the main reason people want RDF is for heroics at max level

I’ll take your word for this, but do keep in mind that I suspect you’re in a tiny minority if you think that people want RDF to spam run Wrath heroics (of course I could be wrong).

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

@Snipy-faerlina

Yes, that’s right. Dude, you’re spam running the same dungeons over and over and over for years. Complaining about level 10s being op for a couple of levels while doing this is hard to understand (for me). But do keep in mind that while I’ve been through phases where all I wanted to do was spam run dungeons, that’s not where I’m at right now.

Complete nonsense.

@Snipy-faerlina

Also keep in mind that I’m not trying to say that your opinion is invalid and mine is correct. I’m trying to better understand what your opinion is, and what problems you are facing that you believe will be solved uniquely for Classic or whether they have been solved in Retail.

Ive stated what my opinions are.

@Snipy-faerlina

I mean, this may have been a meaningful thing to say in 2019 when WoW Classic first dropped

We arent talking about Vanilla Classic either. You want to talk about Vanilla Classic go to that forum.

@Snipy-faerlina

Doubtless for many people Retail started with the Dark Portal. For some, it’s Wrath. Others have stated Cataclysm, when changes to to the old world come is when Retail starts.

What retail is now can be traced back to BFA, maybe Legion. Anything before that is just nonsense.

@Snipy-faerlina

Very easily. As someone who greatly enjoys tanking, there’s no reason for you to not be def capped and raid ready by the time you hit level 80.

Good job at explaining how. I dont know how people can fail so much and still think they are doing good.

@Snipy-faerlina

Well, it’s not really a problem for me

You said it was.

@Snipy-faerlina

I could easily have said it’s a contradictory statement, and it seems to misunderstand what RDF is,

And you would be wrong.

@Snipy-faerlina

I’ll take your word for this, but do keep in mind that I suspect you’re in a tiny minority if you think that people want RDF to spam run Wrath heroics

Spam dungeons for catch up. I dont know what else you would spam heroic dungeons for. When you get caught up there is no reason to run more than 1 heroic unless you are just bored.

[Snipy-faerlina]

@Kelliste-antonidas

Complete nonsense.

@Kelliste-antonidas

just nonsense.

@Kelliste-antonidas

I dont know how people can fail so much and still think they are doing good.

@Kelliste-antonidas

And you would be wrong.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Spam dungeons for catch up. I dont know what else you would spam heroic dungeons for. When you get caught up there is no reason to run more than 1 heroic unless you are just bored.

We don’t seem to be having a conversation at this point. You have your opinions and perspectives and that’s fine.

For you my opinions and perspectives are “just nonsense.” So, that obviously tells me the value of our discussion.

Good luck out there!

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

@Snipy-faerlina

We don’t seem to be having a conversation at this point.

Hard to have a conversation with someone that cant understand what 90% of the other people out there understand perfectly fine. Im not going to waste all day trying to explain simple concepts while you continue to drag retail and vanilla into the conversation. Its not worth it. You are the problem in the conversation.

[Netflix-angerforge]

I have, I went on to play classic for a bit now I dont play at all just let sub go.

[Tysli-sulfuras]

I just raidlog because of no rdf. Questing to level is so boring without dungeon breaks.

[Tesalyn-pagle]

Yeah, that’s true and same for me.
I’ve tried to level another alt now with 75% extra exp (50 JJ and 25 looms) and I couldn’t bring myself to doing so via questing. Done it all too many times.

[Tïamat-grobbulus]

glad i play on a pvp server called grob and we raid capital cities and we actually play the game like it was 2009, none of that cringy raid log then complain about game boring like Faerlina or bene

imagine being on those streamer servers.

[Nowheelchair-stormrage]

@Tesalyn-pagle

I’ve tried to level another alt now with 75% extra exp (50 JJ and 25 looms) and I couldn’t bring myself to doing so via questing. Done it all too many times.

People do not seem to understand that no matter how much you raise the EXP gain even if it was 1000% and every quests gave you half a level, the leveling experience would still suck and be absolutely worthless.

Instead of adding RDF so we can actually enjoy leveling while questing and doing dungeons when we feel like it, they just want to boost the EXP for us to rush to level cap as fast as possible, this is such a horrible way to deal with the boring solo MMO game play leveling experience WOTLK has right now.