in fact that’s pro Cata what you just said. The people that are leaving because of blacklash are not coming back.
Plenty of people are eager to play Cataclysm or/and MoP while they didn’t care about Wrath. Not everyone likes the same things. Fun fact, currently Legion server and mop pservers are the new hot topic
Nah, we are getting Cata. The HC is a fad and does not have sustainability to keep Vanilla afloat. Vanilla was pretty much dead 2 months ago and SoM failed. Theres no reason to think theres any long term viability there.
The streamers will not be able to milk HC for much longer. Theyre already having to create cheating storylines to create content because the griefers are no longer / can no longer offer them the only content worth watching HC for.
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Highest IQ take I’ve seen on this forum in awhile. I could see people possible raid logging an extra night a week if RDF was added.
Bro, you definitely are the suit at Blizzard
They are likely to lose subs if Cataclysm isn’t going to happen. I can’t speak for everyone of course, but with my guild specifically, a decently large guild, none of us want to go back to Vanilla/TBC or do Wrath again… We all are waiting on Cataclysm to keep playing. If they stop Classic at Wrath, they are likely to lose A LOT more subs.
Vanilla Era is staying. SoM2 is coming under a new name. HC is coming. Wrath Era I’m not so sure. Prob a few servers only 1-2 per region.
But same thing will happen to Wrath as it did to Vanilla, it would be deader than dead. A few 100s of players scattered across a dozen of servers.
A lot of people are going full completionism approach - getting things done they didnt do first time around. I’m one of them. I don’t want to lose all my YEARS worth of progress.
Jsut my take on that.
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I am not sure. The token is good money maker, but for gdkp gold to flow we need a fresh supply of level 80s. For that random dungeon finder should give the most exp and provide the best experience for those who want to level and qualify for raids.
They didn’t screw up. Well at least in the sense that this was their plan the whole time. They always intended to launch RDF between ToGC and ICC as a retention/resub push.
Weird, every single people I know who was playing WOTLK quit because of no RDF including myself, few return to retail the rest return to private WOTLK servers since those has RDF.
Personally, I got tired of leveling alt and playing a single player game from 1-70 sometime up to 80, RDF would fix this issue and so I would return to WOTLK, if they add RDF and so would all of my friends probably.
(Personal opinion).
Simple retail is garbage and I am not having fun at all right now, the leveling experience is awful with weird power scaling with level 10 twinks one shooting everything in level 1-60 dungeons, horrible game play nothing seem meaningful at all, you get weaker as you level up from 1-60 its trash.
WOTLK, is the complete opposite leveling in dungeon is satisfying and fun, dropping items actually mean something, the power scaling is pretty good you feel like you are getting stronger every levels, game play is overall better, the talents system is better and so on.
This is why I was able to play on WOTLK private server for years without getting tired of it, all I did is reroll alts, gear them up in Heroic dungeons, sometime doing a raid or two and then I would reroll in a endless loop, I never got tired of it, in retail I can barely level up 3 alts before I get this feeling of pure boredom and emptiness and I get the same feeling in WOTLK without RDF since its a single player game at that point until level cap.
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No its not. In Wrath it was a type of catch up system to get good enough gear and it increased the pool of people that could raid. In retail spamming heroic dungeons are inefficient for any type of catch up. You dont even have to do M0 either to catch up in ilvl. You can get almost 400ilvl without ever setting foot in a dungeon and then jump into the raid.
The real argument is for Heroic dungeons, people are just adding on leveling sucks without RDF as icing on the cake. People in retail to get to max level quickly are spamming dungeons and its usually boring because a level 10 can do 5 times the damage of a level 45 because of the wonky scaling and they take hardly any damage. Its garbage.
The people that are gone are probably gone. As others have said too little too late. It shouldhave been put in when they released Titan Rune dungeons so people could actually get into heroics in a reasonable amount of time instead of not being able to do them at all. This is what happens when you see a problem and just address that problem instead of addressing the problem without creating new problems.
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The truest truth I ever seen on this forum in a while, especially about the scaling, its absolute trash.
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Level 10 monk Spinning Crane Kick killing everything in seconds while a level 45 going through the rotation does almost nothing and you have to keep up and be in range to get any exp.
People that say go to retail for RDF never played retail… ever. I would say they never played wrath either.
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Anybody believing Retail RDF experience is anything like WOTLK RDF experience probably didn’t play retail recently that is for sure, both games gameplay and overall power scaling is so different they are two 100% different games and WOTLK has the superior leveling experience by far.
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Retail scaling is a dual edged sword. Yes the weaker as you level sucks.
It also allowed a more streamlined run. there is no going to wowhead as hillsblad reaches you will die red. and now you are going to thousand needled for some inadequatety explored reason since yellow to you. there isn’t even a breadcrumb for this. its wowhead saying walk south a bit…lots of yellow quests for horde to clean out.
then back in hillsblad areas once managable to clean out those lingering quests.
retail you run can quest in a metamphorical straightline 1 to 60. Just keep on walking down the road as it were.
Or if you really liked going to 1000 needles…go ahead. Scaling jsut had it so if you wanted to stay you could. No need to cross the ocean to find a new yellow quest zone.
But everything else was kinda good/perfect for you guys?
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For me yes, I 100% enjoy WOTLK game play and I don’t hate anything about it really, only thing missing for me to truly enjoy the game is RDF.
I quit before they added Heroic+ or the Tokens, but if we had RDF since the beginning, I doubt I would have quit over those things.
I cannot say for my friends who return to play retail but, for the one who return to no life on random WOTLK private servers its probably the same for them, overall we all agree no RDF was a horrible idea and the difficulty and annoyance of finding groups is what made us quit in the end.
The only other option was to abandon the server we were playing on since Classic in 2019 and go on a mega server to actually find groups for dungeons, but nobody felt like starting over or spend money to transfer so we just all quit.
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They’re probably going to shut wrath down like they did with TBC, the devs obviously don’t care in the slightest about it.
better come with icc
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I haven’t played Retail much since early BFA, but I did play for a while during Shadowlands from just before patch 9.2.5 and for its duration. Anyway, I noticed the scaling issues in dungeons where fresh level 10s do a ton of damage, and it peters out as you progress, but I’m not sure what makes this “boring.”
Yes, it’s a bit silly, and sure it seems like a side-effect of scaling, but it also is a system that solves all the issues of automating group finding.
During the first couple of weeks of WotLK, before P1 raids were available, people ran Heroic Dungeon World Tours. That was a pretty fun time to run Heroic Dungeons. It wasn’t really long after that that Heroic Dungeons sort of became obsolete content to a large extent.
Looking at the Dungeon Finder tool in Retail, it’s difficult to see the perspective that the real argument is for Heroic Dungeons. Dungeon Finder is an automation tool which effectively automates parts of the game, namely leveling through dungeons with other player characters that serve the same purpose and role as NPCs could.
So, for all the people who got to level 80 and for some reason didn’t want to do P1 raiding content, but wanted to do heroics to gear up for P1 content, then what? Stop playing that character and level a new character again?
Why not just do P1 raid content, gear up… run any H+ for particular items that you didn’t get from raid content that week, and then be ready to join your friends in the current raiding content?
Stating both that Dungeon Finder for leveling content is not the main thing, and that Heroic Instances are the main thing is confusing, imo. Perhaps your view is the majority view for those seeking RDF. Perhaps there’s a majority who wants to spend their time focused on running Heroic Dungeons. And perhaps they aren’t doing that now, but they would if there was a tool that automated it, because they really want to do that, but they don’t want to put any effort into it. 
You dont see what makes being say level 49 getting grouped with low level players and they just do the dungeon for the other 4 people? A level 10 can pull half a dungeon and a boss and aoe them all down before you can get 3-5 abilities out. Its boring, its quick up to a point, but its boring.
Thats true, but that means that new players or an alt when they get to 80 are thrust into the content everyone else is at.
No one cares about retail RDF this is Wrath. The only people bringing up retail are the people with 0 arguments.
What in the world are you talking about? A fresh tank… what are they supposed to do when they hit 80? What content are they supposed to do? H+? Not have the defense required? Low hit and expertise so they cant build threat and the run is a mess and people just leave?
Heroics are P1 content but as you said earlier
And how is a tank supposed to get into these groups?
Than thats a you problem because many people understand it perfectly fine. Again the main reason people want RDF is for heroics at max level, leveling content is just icing on the cake to highlight that not having RDF is impacting the entire game and not just max level.
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Yes, that’s right. Dude, you’re spam running the same dungeons over and over and over for years. Complaining about level 10s being op for a couple of levels while doing this is hard to understand (for me). But do keep in mind that while I’ve been through phases where all I wanted to do was spam run dungeons, that’s not where I’m at right now.
Also keep in mind that I’m not trying to say that your opinion is invalid and mine is correct. I’m trying to better understand what your opinion is, and what problems you are facing that you believe will be solved uniquely for Classic or whether they have been solved in Retail.
I mean, this may have been a meaningful thing to say in 2019 when WoW Classic first dropped, but we’re on the same path, doing things slightly differently this time, buts it’s very much a case of “here we go again.”
Doubtless for many people Retail started with the Dark Portal. For some, it’s Wrath. Others have stated Cataclysm, when changes to to the old world come is when Retail starts.
“Retail” is a very subjective concept while Classic seems to be an ideal. Unless of course we are simply stating that we currently have 3 iterations of the same game: Classic Era, Classic (WotLK Classic), WoW (Retail).
Very easily. As someone who greatly enjoys tanking, there’s no reason for you to not be def capped and raid ready by the time you hit level 80. You can form a P1 raid 10m world tour, followed by a 25m world tour and that alone may well get you geared enough to start running Ulduar.
If you’re very late to the game, don’t know the raids, don’t feel confident or comfortable in your abilities to lead or tank, then go respec or use dual spec to get a backseat role and enjoy the ride.
Well, it’s not really a problem for me, unless I care to try to understand your point of view. I could easily have said it’s a contradictory statement, and it seems to misunderstand what RDF is, how it works and what it is intended for. Especially since the design decision going forward has been to remove automated grouping and teleporting to instances from end game PVE content.
I’ll take your word for this, but do keep in mind that I suspect you’re in a tiny minority if you think that people want RDF to spam run Wrath heroics (of course I could be wrong).
Complete nonsense.
Ive stated what my opinions are.
We arent talking about Vanilla Classic either. You want to talk about Vanilla Classic go to that forum.
What retail is now can be traced back to BFA, maybe Legion. Anything before that is just nonsense.
Good job at explaining how. I dont know how people can fail so much and still think they are doing good.
You said it was.
And you would be wrong.
Spam dungeons for catch up. I dont know what else you would spam heroic dungeons for. When you get caught up there is no reason to run more than 1 heroic unless you are just bored.