RDF Pros & Cons

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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It was added at the end of the expansion to sate the content drought which was about to occur with the last raid being released. (Ruby Sanctum was not a raid dont even try) RDF was not the main draw of the expansion and was not responsible for the accumulation of subs that occurred during its lifespan, that has more to do with the marketing and massive influx of new gamers picking up online gaming at the time.

Sure

Debatable, all I see are the same posters over and over trolling the board daily on this topic.

There is no desired meta comp for Wotlk dungeons, and nothing like it never existed during the lifespan of the expansion. There was never a time when you had a frost mage or elemental shaman join and the group disbanded in a sweaty spreadsheet induced state of disgust.

Wotlk dungeons are by far some of the easiest to execute and there is little to no chance of this hyper comp stacking meta to even surface, it doesn’t even happen now in TBC.

anecdotal evidence: but naxx geared raiders were gating people without naxx gear for ramps
Elite players are always going to do this even with LFD they would kick you from the group.

Finally even with 3 dps you could still be waiting an hour for a tank and healer to join. LFD does nothing to solve the tank shortage, it never has.

You already have that exact same comfort. Acting like it is so hard to read a chat box while picking flowers or pressing keybinds in a rotation that you execute via muscle memory is probably the most ridiculous excuse I’ve ever heard on this topic.

Furthermore with the new LFG chat changes the amount of spam in the chat will be cut drastically and this whole “I cant read its too hard” argument goes completely out the window.

Yes it was. The dungeons are so easy that you in fact don’t need an automated queue to do all the work for you. People hit exalted with the WSG rep in classic there will be no issue reaching exalted with the wotlk reps either. Stop being dramatic.

This is a big con I’m glad we can agree on this. There is little reason to recreate the toxic environments that exist on retail in classic so I don’t mind if we miss out on RDF.

Wotlk dungeon blues and epics get replaced so fast that this “con” is highly laughable. Thanks for trying though.

Oh noes I corrected a few typos. Please forgive me.

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  1. I see you editing, it doesn’t matter when it was added… its a non-point… being able to endlessly run dungeons has 0 effect on world firsts, or the end-game state of World of Warcraft in any expansion… As stated several times the only people hurt from not having RDF are CASUAL PLAYERS… and most of Classics population are sweaty… but I thought the goal of a company is to make money… casuals = money.

  2. you agree… good.

  3. Debatable… literally every outside source (youtube, twitter, reddit, etc) is overwhelmingly in support of RDF… you right… its not debatable.

  4. Undesired is in the eyes of the beholder… I agree WOTLK was awesome when it came to making every class so much fun to play. ( im so excited to level everything myself ) but gatekeeping dungeon groups out of LFG is a thing… to act like it doesn’t is laughable.

  5. I have a undergeard rogue currently that I want to be my wotlk main… I have friends to play with, but none of them are running dungeons, my only option to gear him out, outside of PVP gear is GDKPs… ( this is my own personal experience…) but 100% gatekeeping in classic and tbc classic is a HUGE problem… so no… not everyone can easily run a group without paying for a tank or searching for hours.

  6. See above points.

  7. I don’t agree it hurts community, I put it up there because thats the hill you trolls decided to die on. WoW as a whole is a community… REtail, Private, Classic servers… Arguments can be made that sub-communities exist… community bubbles… guilds, and these distinct platforms of course… but we are all one community… People will get the same pleasure from running with someone on their server, as well as someone on a different server… why are we acting like we’re all out here spending 2 hours telling eachother our life stories… 90% of dungeons is no talking until someone does something stupid… Community… such a dumb argument.

  8. I agree, and you seem to agree… DUNGEONS DONT MATTER… so WHY DO WE CARE IF YOU CAN EASILY RUN IT BY CLICKING A BUTTON?

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not another one of these…

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With regards to the new tool vs RDF I’ll always refer to a ZP quote.
It just goes to show: never stick your D— in a pudding . It might still be good pudding, and you can spend all afternoon explaining that, but no one’s gonna eat it because you stuck your D— in it!

We had a perfectly good pudding, flavourful and ready to go just sitting in the fridge. Had…

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Uh, what??

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That was a very… creative metaphor. Please receive my commendations.

And my condolences…

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This isn’t my opinion, this is just what I’ve seen for the anti-RDF posts.

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The, “easy to obtain gear” is more about the pittance of bonus emblems from queuing random. Which… is basically the same thing as the daily heroic quest from TBC, it’s just you can potentially avoid having to deal with a really annoying heroic for said daily.

The community thing is basically all they have, and it’s entirely subjective and on a per-server basis - for the most part, it’s simply not worth preserving as in large part it doesn’t exist. Grobbulus is the only one I can think of that has a server community worth preserving and it’s because it’s one of the only balanced PvP servers.

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Pros: all. Cons: none. Anything else is copium.

I don’t even know why these so-called CC members still have their flag. The CC has been an abysmal failure, especially for Classic. The supposed “representatives” of Classic have all stopped posting after making one post about an irrelevant detail of the game, or have continued to spam the forums thinking their opinion is relevant to the discussion of the game.

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Yall I’ll give you some real cons, you won’t even read this post or take any time to consider what I say, but since you asked I’ll explain three reasons in detail why I despise RDF.

  1. The added reward of the loot box. It makes everyone skip bosses and rush rush rush to the end, not doing quests, not doing fun side things, nothing. This goes hand in hand with the teleport. All through vanilla classic and tbc classic, from my own experience in groups, people took the time to actually roll out there to the dungeon, quests picked up, ready to spend an hour or two fully clearing the dungeon. Not with RDF. You ever used it in the 50s and got “BRD Jail”. Literally the group will run to the boss required for the loot box and skip everything else. Then leave after getting their loot box so they can queue fast for another loot box.

  2. The DPS queue and the forced usage of RDF. So many are under this fantastical assumption that RDF will magically generate new tanks and healers for you that will make you get into dungeons faster. It doesn’t. You will be waiting 1 to 2 hours for a dungeon group as a DPS. Before RDF, if you know how to build a group, you can make a group for just about any dungeon in Vanilla/TBC quickly. Offer to share quests. Bring a warlock along for a summon (pre tbc). There are many things you can do to make a group build faster, those are just two. With RDF, none of that matters. You are forced to wait in queue because no tank or healer and ESPECIALLY no DPS is going to drop their position in queue to group with you for a dungeon. Take off the rose colored goggles and go hop on a pserver with RDF, try making a random pug group without using it. Near impossible. You are forced to use it.

  3. Ninja looting. With cross-server RDF, as it was in original wrath, we were forced to use Need before Greed loot. What that actually resulted in was anyone that could need anything rolled need on it. Warriors taking cloth spell damage gear was extremely common in groups. Why? Because you never saw these guys again, they weren’t even on your server, and that cloth item vendors for 5g. Gearing up through dungeons was a nightmare if you didn’t have buddies to roll with so you could vote kick the ninja looters until you got a kind enough player in your group that wouldn’t do that crap. If we get cross server RDF again, expect to have gear you need taken by classes that will never use it, just as it was originally in wotlk when RDF came out. This is part of the reason they have personal loot on retail now.

Those are in my mind 3 very good reasons as to why RDF is a terrible game system, and I didn’t even mention community. There are hordes of players with these same complaints and many more, at least from my own anecdotal experience, and yall would see that if you actually took the time to talk to others outside the echo chamber of RDF lovers.

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You mean the random thing you get in low level dungeons? Why does this matter at all?

If it’s between a queue and having to spam LFG, most people will pick the queue. More people use LFD than not when it’s available because it’s better than the alternative.

This already exists, and it’s also not something to warrant removing LFD entirely. Server-only LFD is also something people have suggested for high pop realms.

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This isn’t true. RDF WILL encourage more players to become tanks/healers, namely tanks in this case. Furthermore, even if it DIDN’T, it would still allow for a bigger player pool to choose from, thus increasing the number of tanks and healers you have access to.

LOL. 2 Hours in RDF?! HA! That’s a joke, right?

This, also, isn’t true. Once Lich King is actually released, who’s gonna be doing low-level dungeons? We have Death Knights, Level 70 boosts, Pre-Patch Exp Increase, etc. The only people that will be running lower-level dungeons are the people that don’t want to pay for a boost and didn’t get into the Pre-Patch hype. The only way to improve these odds is to expand the playerbase across realms.

It was INSANELY common for tanks and/or healers to be asked to group up with DPS to get in faster. RDF actually forged many bonds because of this.

You’re not FORCED to do anything. You feel compelled because of other players using it, which goes to prove that it’s a good thing.

Lol. Ninja-looting is far from new, and certainly didn’t originate or increase because of the Dungeon Finder. This is a stupid argument with absolutely no support. Try again.

Sorry to break it to you, those are not even bad, they’re terrible.

Seems all Anti-RDFers quote the same things, over and over.

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Lol no. If you mention in the beginning you want to detour quickly to X Y Z most people are OK with it. Keep the hyperbole up though. If it upsets you that much though I’m sure most people wouldn’t care if it was removed if that meant LFD comes in the game.

Yeah no. More hyperbole. Average queues on Warmane for dps is 15-20mins max. Again, keep spewing hyperbole.

This literally happens right now. People are needing on everything for sharding, OS, whatever in regular groups. That’s not the fault of LFD.

All your reasons are nonsense.

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Ah, gotcha!

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RDF is for lazy incapable players.

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Yes, because Anti-RDF and Pro-RDF players both know the RDF tool is convenient and a faster way to play. If the RDF is added, it would make no sense for an Anti-RDF player to not use the tool.

Anti-RDF people are against the tool being added, but aren’t going to ignore it if it was added.

Antecodtally, I’ve never been a part of a group with a ninja looter in my TBC Classic play through. It’s happened in retail, but not a whole lot. Either way, with automated grouping, if someone is a ninja looter, then he won’t ever be denied a spot in RDF, whereas in manually created groups, he could be excluded. I can see why people are more likely to ninja in a system where they can’t be denied access.

If Blizzard is using this as an experiment to see where retail went wrong, then thats fine. We just had all of TBC with no RDF that went fine, I imagine WotLK will be the same. Last night on Pagle on my druid healer, I typed “LF4M Anzu Run” one time, and had a full group.

It’s funny to me, there are heroic groups in the bulletin board addon since I got my healer to 70 that are only looking for DPS. It was kinda hard to get the ball rolling but I got it going.

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A whole lot of Wrath dungeons are linear without an option to skip bosses. Not saying there are none but most dont have an option to skip bosses.

WHAT? 1-2 hours? Longest queue I ever had in wrath was 45 min. That was at 4:00 am PST on a West Coast server. This is hogwash

Fair point and crappy to have happen. This on its own shouldnt round file a game system

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For a dps it is common to see the queue go from 45 mins at prime time to well over an hour and a half outside of prime. The only players that get an instant queue are tanks and sometimes healers.

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Never once saw that in my Battle Group. Not even close. Never even heard of that in fact. Spent a lot of time on the old forums and remember people talking about hr long queues and that was an outlier.

That being said, sitting in a queue for an hour and half is preferable to waiting that same amount of time for someone to accept your under geared or offspec character into a dungeon or dealing with reserved loot.

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The only one I remember is Hall of Stone, and people always skipped the two bosses. But they also had the timed event gauntlet boss, so people just wanted to be done with the place.