I mostly quit playing retail before all this Mythic+ plus stuff, but it seems to me it would lead to burnout faster and a much more hostile go go go attitude?
*just from what I read about it on the forums.
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Player-to-player interaction mostly takes place in the field, not in dungeons.
Nerfing old quests making formerly group quests soloable is far more detrimental to the community than RDF is.
Helping each other needs to happen in early stages of the game, or people will stick to soloing even at higher levels (and in dungeons, mentally).
In my own experience, RDF itself was fine when it was used by old players.
When there was an influx of players who solely leveled in the nerfed system, the go go go attitude became rampant.
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If Blizzard was really concerned with Community feed back, every person with an active TBC account would be given the option to submit their opinion in a simple Poll that would appear in game, giving each account 1 vote on topics that concern the community. Most of these Poll could be done in a simple 5 to 10 question format that would provide the most comprehensive community feed back from all players. Every week they could Poll the community on different subject concerning WotLK until itâs launch. Itâs quick, itâs easy, and it gives everyone a voice without tons of the nonsense posts.
I really am tired of all the people posting âit will ruin the gameâ, or it will destroy the community. These posts are ignorant nonsense that provide absolutely nothing to help the matter. If you canât explain in detail how and why or show real proof, then best keep your comments to yourself.
Last, perhaps it would be in your best interest not to just comment the nonsense, but try to see the other side of the argument. Perhaps you can provide a reasonable solution to both allow it to exist and provide limitations that you feel cause the game harm.
Player-to-player interaction mostly takes place in the field, not in dungeons.
Nerfing old quests making formerly group quests soloable is far more detrimental to the community than RDF is.
Helping each other needs to happen in early stages of the game, or people will stick to soloing even at higher levels (and in dungeons, mentally).In my own experience, RDF itself was fine when it was used by old players.
When there was an influx of players who solely leveled in the nerfed system, the go go go attitude became rampant.
Yup. When open world content became soloable from start to finish, thatâs when I felt the community start to diminish. My best ârandom communityâ experiences have always been in the open world.
if dogs want no dungeon finder for wrath, expect good healers like myself, and tanks, to run almost always with guild and also when not, having heavy gearscore requirements.
Iâll tell you the same thing I tell every person that tries to use this argument.
Maybe itâs a YOU problem. I have no issues socializing in groups or with random people. I do it every time I log on and in every dungeon group I join.
Wife and I ran a Timewalking dungeon on Retail (it was halls of lightning lol), that was a fun run, people were bantering and we were discussing wrath classic.
Super social honestly.
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You can only socialize with people on your server, you see. And wading through the endless buying/selling dungeon runs spam of lfg is the pinnacle of community building.
Having brief, social encounters with players you may or may not see againâŚletâs go ahead and eliminate that possibility. Itâs far better to just pay gold to people on your server to join their dungeon group and silently complete it without saying a word.
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It seems like this is a point of contention that those of us on opposite sides of the conversation canât see eye to eye on.
Whether you disagree with it being a good thing or not, could you at least see that this situation was one of two options very likely to emerge from Classic sometime near the Wrath era? The idea that Classic was given to us because many people wanted to go back to WoWâs roots, and that Blizzard would eventually have to make a choice between achieving parity with the respective content theyâre re-releasing, or achieving parity with the âoriginal courseâ WoW was on in the beginning? WoW eventually turned into what would be called Retail, and if the goal of Classic is to âredoâ WoW without those aspects that caused people to want Classic or ânon-Retailâ in the first place, they really wouldnât have made any significant changes until Wrath.
I get that youâre against the idea of major changes like this, but do you at least agree with me that this situation was highly likely out of all the possible outcomes?
As a disclaimer, I have no disagreement with people who are upset about things being significantly changed from their original state â I think it was reasonable to assume that things would be in the Classic version if they were present in the original release. The disagreement we have seems to lie only in whether the changes are good for the game or not.
In hindsight, maybe. I still donât think Classiclysm will be terribly popular if Blizzard even decides to give it a shot. Generally, I think the anti-LFD crowd are blowing the toxicity that showed up in random dungeons out of proportion while simultaneously downplaying/ignoring the toxicity that occurred inside dungeons and in the formation of dungeon groups before the RDF ever happened.
It honestly never occurred to me that theyâd delete the feature altogether - particularly when there are smarter moves they could have made. Especially if theyâd thought this through from the beginning - which it seems quite obvious they didnât.
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Iâd like to once again say that no matter how you spin it, spamming a chat window is not socializing.
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I think there will be enough people willing to play it (myself included) to justify its existence, but Iâd have to agree that it will probably be the least popular era of Classic up to that point.
Personally, the removal of the âRetail aspectsâ of the game is something Iâve been thinking about since before Vanilla Classic actually launched. From a business standpoint, it seems like they would eventually be forced to make a decision between parity or changes. Or from the perspective of people on my side of this conversation, a choice between making the same mistakes all over again, or righting the âwrongsâ.
I have a very hard time trying to imagine what their long-term goals are, but I would expect that this decision is an indication that theyâre going to show the âalternate endingâ of WoW as we knew it then.
Of course, Iâm sad for the people whose experience will be ruined by these changes â I totally get that many people expected exactly the same experience they had originally, and it makes perfect sense that this would be very disappointing for them.
Iâd like to once again say that no matter how you spin it, many people think it is.
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I just donât follow that it is an essential function and inherently more valuable than the teamwork that goes into completing the dungeon.
The same people that think it is are the same people who want an updated LFG tool over the LFD tool, as if LFG is somehow more social.
I appreciate that you have a different perspective on it than I do, but I donât like the idea of bringing more automation into the game for the sole purpose of adding more convenience to things that are already quite easy to do. Building a group and actually traveling to the dungeon may seem trivial to many people, but to effectively lose those things would be more significant to me than the significance of the added convenience.
Whether you think the LFG interface is social or not, it at least doesnât trivialize certain aspects of the game that make many people find enjoyable or undermine the intended design of the game.
Itâs part of the game itself, it IS the intended design of the game.
It was part of the game, only after Activision had merged with Blizzardâs parent company and started calling the shots. Not to mention, only after more than half of of the lifespan and more than 75% of the expansions content had already passed.
The world was intended to feel vast and populated, and dungeon finder inherently undermines both of these things by trivializing them. Just off the top of my head, effectively removing the distance between the player and the destinations where they want to be cheapens the value of:
- The size and design of the world (distance needed to be travelled)
- The time/effort invested in faster mounts
- Playerâs choice for hearthstone destinations
- Mage portals
- Warlock summoning
- Summoning Stones
- Knowledge of where the dungeon entrances are
- All of the dangers that lie between
Itâs been stated the devs wanted to put it in earlier but technical issues prevented it.
People always pull Activision into this, but wrath and its system where well laid out before the merger was finalized, and even former devs stated Activision was pretty hands off initially.
Itâs like the MS merger now, people think things are going to change the minute the merger is finalized, itâll be YEARS before we see MS influence on the game.
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Would you mind linking me to any statements made about technical issues with duingeon finderâs first implementation? Iâm aware that at least one of the people on the Wrath development team has stated that it shouldâve been in the game sooner, but that seemed more like a philosophical stance than a logistical one to me.
Itâs true that Wrathâs initial developement was probably almost, if not entirely complete by the time Blizzard was integrated into Activision, but dungeon finder was implemented in late Wrath â Not exactly a great indication that it was indicative of Wrathâs original trajectory before Activision entered the picture.