I will never understand why you guys keep giving attention to the same trolls like Bloom, Redhead, Zip, Lemon and his alts…
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Having a different opinion than you doesnt make someone a troll.
Exactly this. Yes, Blizzard has full and unrestricted access to their own server logs. Yes, they can analyze almost two decades worth of that data to their heart’s content. That does not in any way suggest that they will interpret said data accurately and walk away with the correct conclusions.
With all of their data they either did not see megaservers happening or they did not care. Either they don’t see it as a problem, or they do not care. Either they have a fundamentally different idea of what are major issues for the players, or they do not care. None of these possibilities suggests that they’ll do anything to improve things.
The idea that they crunched the numbers and saw that the data supports the removal of LFD is just absolutely laughable.
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Data means nothing if the people interpreting it are incompetent.
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personally I think it has more to do with their ego’s than data.
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Why didn’t you respond to the reasons I stated though? I’d be lying if I said that dungeon finder wouldn’t be used for quick and efficient content at level cap, but that’s definitely not even close to being the top reason, or even in the top 3 reasons cited by people who want dungeon finder, I think.
It would be a difficult situation for sure, but I don’t think the situation is beyond saving. I would much rather see login queues come back than to watch the largest realms slowly absorb all of the other ones. This situation is absolutely antithetical to the idea of PvP realms (single-factions realms) and to the community that many of us miss (realms that are too big or are dead). If a realm gets to the point where it’s population permanently exists on multiple layers, I don’t really see how this situation is much different than having connected realms to begin with. Except this situation is even worse because more layers just cut down the number of people you’ll be able to interact with if you’re not playing whatever content is absolutely most popular. Not to mention, there’s almost no variety in servers.
I think it’s an important issue because these are some of the biggest aspects that originally made the game feel so good to play, and if they’re ever going to get it right, I really want to see them get it right for Wrath. It’s worth the discomfort, I think.
I feel left out. 
Who’s ego benefits from the removal of dungeon finder?
The current Dev’s trying to scapegoat the failures of retail to things other than their crappy design.
Blizzard devs do seem to get stuck in their own ideas, no matter what feedback they receive about it. Almost like they can’t accept that their own ideas might not be the best.
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Probably time constraints. Half of the time I post it’s while I’m at work and probably supposed to be doing something other than this.
Yes, but the purpose of the groups is different. In Wrath the way things are set up, you can get sort of ghetto raid-geared just by spamming enough Heroics. If you’re not able to raid regularly you can still approach that level of gear - while still being noticeably lower than it. Also, with Tabards for reputation, dungeons are the most efficient way to gain reputation and unlock upgrades. That absolutely does not exist in any form on retail.
Dungeons/heroics on retail are … busywork. They’re time wasters. I’m not going to spam dungeons/heroics on retail for the various pieces of [My Classes Armor Type] of the {Random Enchantment}. I don’t know how many extra labor hours were required to name the dungeon loot, but when they stopped doing that I pretty much stopped doing dungeons anywhere near as much as before.
Giving the bosses the same loot tables on heroic versions just with higher item levels and the [Heroic] branding worked and actually made a lot of sense. Once it stopped mattering what dungeon you did and which boss it took a lot of the fun out of it. There’s a whole different feeling when the gear you’ve been trying to get from the last boss in Heroic Halls of Stone finally drops and you can check that off and never go back there if you just don’t want to.
Remind me again why you’re arguing for Wrath Dungeon Finder?
Like, honestly, Mythic+ would be the sort of thing I’d like if there wasn’t so much other retail baggage along with it. If a genie popped and said “Go ahead and wish for Mythic+ dungeons in Wrath Classic” I’d have to remember the entire story of The Monkey’s Paw in order to resist.
And that’s an ego problem… how?
Retail started sucking at some point, there’s no argument to be had about that among people who wanted Classic. You may disagree with the specific areas where some people think the failings lie, but to turn this into some ego thing? 
What’s the point of even discussing it if you earnestly believe that?
If it’s an ego issue as you say, there’s no chance they’re going to reverse their decision (which would hurt their ego), so the only one losing dignity in the situation is people who waste their times on these forums thinking that their decision making isn’t based on game design philosophy.
Ah, I feel that. It just felt like the whole point I was making was lost in the conversation.
Edit: I see now that I misspoke there, so I’m not sure if you had the wrong impression of my stance when you wrote this, but if you didn’t, I originally said:
I don’t disagree with you that dungeon finder is a convenient way to get yourself geared up and ready for endgame content. But what does that have to do with those things I listed? As I said, very few of the people here and the arguments they make for dungeon finder are about gearing at level cap. It does get mentioned, but overwhelmingly, people see dungeon finder as a quality of life improvement needed for leveling.
It’s with that in mind that I say that retail’s dungeon finder checks the boxes that many people here seem to need.
Sorry, when I said “Wrath dungeon finder”, I meant “Retail’s dungeon finder”. I’m against dungeon finder in Wrath, not for it.
1st messing with the original design thinking they can do better
2nd things like “you think you do but you don’t” "an “we’d rather you not play” throw in how many expansions people complaining about borrowed powers and them doing the same thing over and over.
how it is not a ego thing.
Till around LK launch I’m still subbed (I would not have subbed back at all if I would have know the extent they would have messed with the original design but while here maybe enough outrage from enough people will get them to listen, it seems to be the only thing that get through).
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Wrath was around the time when the game started it’s shift into Retail. Anyone with some sense should’ve known that Wrath would be the point where they started making significant changes to the game. The whole point of Classic was to give us back what we had before Retail, so it follows logically that the things that turned WoW into Retail were quite likely to be changed or removed.
Whether you think dungeon finder is more of a Retail or a Classic feature is up for debate, but there are many of us who feel that it’s a Retail feature, and a big enough portion of the WoW team thought the same.
Uh. What does that have to do with Classic?
I really hope they don’t listen to the loud part of the community on this issue, but yeah, there is a chance they could revert the decision. I do think it’s pretty unlikely though, since they’re revamping the LFG tool for Wrath Classic. They probably know that the state of the game will be unequivocally healthier than the doomsayers on the forums think it will be.
being it was the most popular anyone with any sense should’ve have know it should have gotten the least amount of changes.
you asked what it had to do about their Ego’s showing their mind set seems to have a lot to do with it.
Loud and you have any prof it’s not the largest (that’s always great for business to ignore).
Right I’m sure they know what’s best look how great retail is.
It reached its absurd popularity metrics without dungeon finder. Wrath enjoyed 75% of it’s content and more than half of its life without dungeon finder. Dungeon finder is bad for the game. Playing without dungeon finder would be more of an iconic Wrath experience for people who played the entire expansion.
But that stuff all happened before Classic. You’re comparing the mindset that gave us Retail to the mindset that brought back old WoW. O.o
There may be staff overlap between those eras of the game, but mindsets aren’t set in stone and don’t have to be the same. That’s why we have Classic in the first place.
Again, we’re talking about making Wrath less like Retail. If you dislike Retail, then you should be thrilled about this change!
it had it for a Hair over half it’s life and even at the end it didn’t drop off (last expansion to do so it seems) must not have hurt it to much , correction you and the people I think have ego issues think it’s bad for the game… You mean more Iconic for you sure not me, and I was there the entire expansion.
Really SL didn’t have any of that crap in it…
best way to keep it less like retail is to keep anyone and everyone that had any hand in retail fingers now out of it and launch it just like it was.
There will be more raid logging, boosting, gold buying, and fewer alts than if RDF was implemented. The toxicity will be the same. Most people that were planning on playing will still be there, they’ll just be running fewer dungeons and gearing up slower.
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Yes and we were hoping that that retail mindset had not infested classic as well.
But sadly it has and we see classic devs making incredibly bad choices then refusing to listen to feedback. Which is exactly the situation that got us retail.
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Well that goes with blizzards new design philosophy, they no longer care about subs just time played metrics. (wonder if that might lead to burn out faster… nah sure they know what they are doing).
Looks to me like they’ve listened to feedback from the people who want server communities intact and don’t want dungeon finder.
Yeah, I’m not super concerned with the arguments other people are making for dungeon finder. I want it and I have reasons for wanting it. Leveling is nice, and a decade ago I used it for leveling but the community and the meta is so wildly different that I’m not convinced it would be quite as wonderful as everyone is saying. I’d love to see it implemented and be proven wrong, but personally I’d be more likely to just grind out quests as I normally do and use a second account to dungeonboost my own characters.
Problem being it’s still retail with retail gear and retail talent points and retail borrowed power systems and torghast, etc.
I don’t play retail at all any more. At this point, about the only thing that would get me to go back is if I could run one dungeon a day and get enough gold to pay for my subscription. Which won’t happen because if I could do that, anyone could and they’d stop making money.
Yeah, that was a bit confusing.