RDF - a particularly important feature

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

Toxicity comes in a ton of forms but Im not the kind of guy that gets worked up about someone underperforming so long as we can get through the instance or whatever.

If its that bad I might offer some helpful advice but if the person is cordial and whatnot Im not going to hate on them for doing bad dps.

[Jetfuel-netherwind]

@Zettser-aegwynn

RDF stands for Random Dungeon Finder.
With said tool, which was introduced in the WOTLK expansion, it was possible for players to fill their group for specific or random dungeons, or even to find a connection without a group, thanks to automated searches.

The bad reputation

Today, a significant part of the World of Warcraft player community (estimated at around 50%) has a bad reputation for the RDF.
World of Warcraft once had what appeared to be a social and communicative community, which has continued to deteriorate over time to a point where the existence of toxic players or toxic behavior increased, thought of themselves rather than the group, or no words at all within a group to be exchanged.

The thought behind the system

Let’s consider the number of instances of all extensions:
Classic - 29 instances,
TBC - 16 instances,
WOTLK - 16 instances,
So we come to the conclusion that with WOTLK Classic we have 61 instances to choose from, 45 of which lose their importance, since they will not contain any experience or useful loot for level 71-80.

With TBC Classic, many players have already had the experience that we will encounter many “dead instances”, especially in the vanilla area (1-60) instances there have lost their importance.
The number of “dead instances” increases from 29 to 45 with the WOTLK Classic expansion.

The heroic instance version also ensures that any NHC variants of the new instances lose their importance over time, so that the forecast can be made at this point:
“The 16 new instances will also die in their normal difficulty.”
True to the motto: “Why should I go normal if I can go heroic?”

So if all instances of Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK (NHC) die out and almost no group can be found for these instances, then all dungeon experience up to level 80 will be assassinated and an important aspect of World of Warcraft will no longer be playable for all players .

The RDF was originally designed to stop instances from dying out, allowing any player to queue up for targeted or random instances.
With the introduction of the RDF, instances not only got a new reputation, but gained an even greater importance than before, since instances are now faster to access and frequent visits to instances have become a popular way of leveling in the game.

With the bonus of being able to play through the RDF to heroic dungeon gear, Blizzard also brought in the option to give each character an easy start into the endgame.

The improvement - RDF 2.0

While the RDF solved many important problems, it failed to address one. Why would a player continue to run through dungeons, especially as a less popular role, when it just doesn’t do them any good anymore.

So all players got further rewards for playing with the RDF in the form of points that could be exchanged for valuable and good armor.
In addition, certain roles were given additional loot when registering if the queues were too long due to a lack of roles.
This additional loot could also include very rare mounts or something similar.
At that time no player had to wait longer than 10 minutes for a dungeon.

With these additional features, Blizzard has devised the optimal system,
a system that should have stayed that way.

His downfall - RDF 3.0

The RDF could no longer keep up with subsequent expansions.
Blizzard has enabled cross-server group search since Cataclysm and, together with the new LFR tool, apparently had seemingly good improvements in hand, which consequently led to the demise of the RDF.

The queues started getting longer again as Blizzard trimmed down the handsome rewards for playing understaffed roles. Rare loot could no longer be obtained, and points for exchanging good armor also no longer existed.

By playing with non-server players, the obsessive social behavior of the players was no longer necessary, the reputation was no longer damaged and over time fewer and fewer words were exchanged with each other.
Since you can also join raid groups from other servers, the seriousness in raids has decreased. Raid groups disbanded faster than new ones could be created, along the lines of “Why waste my time here when I can find a better one right now?”

Guilds began to split - what was previously an exclusive is now available to all. The social pressure in the player community decreased with all the freedoms that Blizzard gave the players - A double-edged sword, as it turned out - the beginning of the end of the social community was given here and it got worse from expansion to expansion.

What would WOTLK Classic be without the RDF?

The much-feared RDF was in its heyday just around WOTLK and was anything but community-destroying and anti-social, which many players suspect.
Yes, the RDF played a large part in the downfall of the social community, but only AFTER WOTLK and this fact in particular should be considered.

He was the salvation WOTLK needed to save dungeons and if left out we will experience an instance death like we have never seen before.

Does the RDF destroy the endgame?

The RDF ends right where the endgame begins.
You can already find groups for the first classic instances up to the late WOTLK heroic instances. The RDF doesn’t go any further and with all love: With the WOTLK heroic gear you didn’t get very far in the past, but it offers a great introduction to the upcoming endgame.

Is it more social without RDF than with RDF?

Whether someone finds a group with RDF, without RDF with addon or without RDF at all, social behavior will not change.
Just when the addon has settled in, players will notice
that when they behave anti-socially, which no one in a group wants to play with them.
An anti-social player may end up in the same dungeons as a social player,
but once his reputation has spread, his ability to find a group for other content will be minimal.

The social behavior is not due to the RDF, but really to one’s own reputation.
Only when cross-server games with Cataclysm were possible and you could continue to raid despite a bad reputation, etc., did the end of the social community take its course.

This is probably the best post I’ve read in support of RDF and the author is totally right

Come on Blizzard, do the right thing!

[Despitebeing-incendius]

Neat another thread to mute

[Jetfuel-netherwind]

@Zettser-aegwynn

Only when cross-server games with Cataclysm were possible and you could continue to raid despite a bad reputation, etc., did the end of the social community take its course.

Cross server is the root cause of WoWs downfall. It destroyed retail WoW and it destroy pvp once it was introduced in classic

[Darkdad-sargeras (Darkdad)]

Cross server doesnt matter when you have a mega horde server and a mega alliance server. When they allow servers to have 30 thousand people on them it doesnt matter anymore. Cross server doesn’t mean what it used to. People are already playing cross server.

[anon61965707]

Well said, RDF is one of the main reasons I love wotlk, without it I’m not gonna play!

[Timothra-mankrik]

RDF solves many of the current problems with TBC. Not putting it in wrath classic means all those problems transfer into wrath classic plus the problems created with the new LFG “tool”.

[Erthas-bonechewer]

Funny how lots of people want the classic server to match the state of the game of the matching patch from back in the day exept when in come to this

What is the point of a classic server if a major system that was introduced in that patch isnt there?

[Coos-grobbulus]

Yup RDF is pretty much a huge confusion spot for why it isnt in the game.

[Anachronos-shandris]

1000% should be in the game.

[Darkdad-sargeras (Darkdad)]

Because more people would buy paid boosts without it.

[Forumfighter-area-52]

I have become mostly convinced that these anti rdf folks are people who benefit significantly from the gatekeeping of dungeons. They are just masking their true intentions behind arguments of “muh community!”

[Arielba-sulfuras]

@Zettser-aegwynn

The improvement - RDF 2.0

While the RDF solved many important problems, it failed to address one. Why would a player continue to run through dungeons, especially as a less popular role, when it just doesn’t do them any good anymore.

So all players got further rewards for playing with the RDF in the form of points that could be exchanged for valuable and good armor.
In addition, certain roles were given additional loot when registering if the queues were too long due to a lack of roles.
This additional loot could also include very rare mounts or something similar.
At that time no player had to wait longer than 10 minutes for a dungeon.

With these additional features, Blizzard has devised the optimal system,
a system that should have stayed that way.

the problem is this system reeks of retail, bud

@Zettser-aegwynn

Is it more social without RDF than with RDF?

Whether someone finds a group with RDF, without RDF with addon or without RDF at all, social behavior will not change.
Just when the addon has settled in, players will notice
that when they behave anti-socially, which no one in a group wants to play with them.
An anti-social player may end up in the same dungeons as a social player,
but once his reputation has spread, his ability to find a group for other content will be minimal.

nonsense. there is no reputation concern when RDF is cross-server. bad behavior has no social consequences.

[Timothra-mankrik]

They don’t want others to have what they have.

[Morastelys-uther]

Blockquote nonsense. there is no reputation concern when RDF is cross-server. bad behavior has no social consequences.

But not when nearly what you think when servers can Hold 30,000 people. That is as much as 5 or 6 server when launched.

You want to see the problem with not having it? Iron Forge pro numbers show classic is dying faster then you would like to think. Old Blanchy

US WestPvE 422

245 / 58.1% Alliance

177 / 41.9% Horde

All server raiding numbers US and Oceanic (edit) PVE realms

All selected realms

36118

22110 / 61.2% Alliance

14008 / 38.8% Horde

There are a total of ~36,000 active raiding CHARACTERS not even people through all of US and Oceanic Classic and TBC. Put in the LFD/LFG tool so people can level easier. Are there people who will just spam it yes but if it makes it easier to find a healer or tank then I really don’t care. When this tool happened I got guild offers from random people because I was able to heal through stuff others hand problems with. I was able to stop using the LFG channel and hear “Your mom is so fat she sits around your house.” jokes. If you want that fine stay in LFG but really I don’t need my guild chat scrolling off screen for the “my nuts are huge.” convo you get in LFG. Edit to add one more thing

[Kellandriya-mankrik]

@Arielba-sulfuras

the problem is this system reeks of retail, bud

So does Wrath Reforged, it’s literally ON retail code, with retail LFG, retail pvp, etc., etc…the “retail” argument is old and unimaginative.

[Asma-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Kellandriya-mankrik

it’s literally ON retail code

As are Era and SoM as well.
The OMG GO TO RETAIL, SCUM refrain is just not a well thought out talking point.

[Fujinn-ashkandi]

@Arielba-sulfuras

the problem is this system reeks of retail, bud

I really don’t think you’ve played retail in many many years…The irony of this whole thing is the LFG tool they are modifying for Wrath Classic is probably the most used and impactful tool in relation to grouping and social interactions on Retail.

@Arielba-sulfuras

nonsense. there is no reputation concern when RDF is cross-server. bad behavior has no social consequences.

This whole reputation concern is really overstated in my opinion. The kind of bad behavior people describe in relation to RDF isn’t the sort of thing people are really concerned about when it comes to their “reputation”. In fact toxic/troll type behavior is actually far less impactful on your experience due to the ease of access RDF provides. Right now with how long and how difficult it is to get a group for dungeons running into this sort of behavior can be extremely demoralizing.

[Timothra-mankrik]

@Asma-bloodsail-buccaneers

As are Era and SoM as well.
The OMG GO TO RETAIL, SCUM refrain is just not a well thought out talking point.

yet it is the exact types of “socializations” that blizzard and the anti-social anti-rdf crowd hope to nurture and coddle by removeing the RDF/LFD original-to-wrath feature.

[Fùry-stormrage (Fùry)]

Late to this post but really really great, nice write up.

We need a return of the king, RDF. No king rules forever but RDF is in its prime right now.