There is nothing better then when a melee get on you and you have 0 chance of getting away, much less winning the fight. Fights with melee are overly one sided in a 1v1 ,yes I know the game is not balanced around 1v1 but with that said having the game balance for 3v3’s is not fixing anything either. Melee have the same amount of CC’s at the range if not more, most of which also have high mobility, long with self healing and some of them even have mid range damage. There is a middle ground that needs to be found in all of this that is just not there. At what point do we stop think about the state of the game. I know face tanking a melee sounds great on paper “cough” but I get it mages can kite for days! Now I know this is a long shot but what if not every melee was built to fight mage. I know its crazy to think that but we are at the point were all melee are made just to fight mage. So please stop and I mean stop making melee so oppressive, we can change the range that are stomping them. You do not have to buff something to fix a problem sometimes it is better just to look at what the problem is.
I really couldn’t agree more. “PvP isn’t balanced around 1v1” to me is just an excuse for maintaining the status quo. The plain fact is that 1v1 battles happen all the time now, and I find it pretty much impossible to ever win against a melee attacker. I think melee uptime really needs to be reevaluated. Every single melee class (possibly excepting Paladins) has multiple ways to instantly close gaps, and all on much shorter cooldowns than my “get-out-of-my-face” abilities. Additionally, they have stuns, roots, and slows all of which seem to be missing from my tool kit. I’m not saying that a melee opponent should never be able to touch me, but I really do think this aspect of the game is egregiously imbalanced. Imagine if I could use Shining Force every 30 seconds, then immediately stun the person, and then force them to walk at 50% speed to get back in range of me. I’m sure the howls of unfairness would be heard from here to the moon. Yet the reverse of that is exactly what Warriors, Rogues, Demon Hunters, Death Knights, and Monks do to me all the time. Oh, and their self-healing is just as effective as mine, of not more so. It’s both frustrating and puzzling that this has been allowed to continue for so long.
Mages and locks to a lesser degree have likely made it much more difficult for other ranged classes that don’t have as much control.
That’s why my h priest is shelved.
This really depends. As a Priest I can see where you’re coming from. As a Warrior with 1 baseline CC being fear, Charge on a 20 second CD and Heroic Leap on 45 second CD. Mages are actually more mobile than I am and have baseline CC that matters.
Ranged are incredibly powerful, you’re just unlucky you’re playing a class/spec Blizz just doesn’t care about.
It’s this god awful arms race that resulted from Blizzard’s inability to rein in Mages. Mages have literally NEVER had a bad Arena season. Ever. From day one, they’ve been just about required for almost every Gladiator-tier comp. That’s not to say that they were the only class that fits this description (Disc Priest and Rogue come to mind…), but they are by FAR the Ranged class with the most control.
As a result of this, we are left with a class with insane amounts of control, that is in almost every high end Arena comp, so Blizzard is ‘forced’ (read: unable/unwilling to nerf Mages) to bring mobility up on Melee to offset it. The side effect of this is that you now have Ranged classes with widely varying degrees of control that simply cannot go toe-to-toe with almost any Melee spec.
To the surprise of ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, this results in intense frustration on the part of a large subsection of Ranged specs who cannot get a moment of breathing room, while simultaneously being required to make up for how incredibly powerful Mage’s toolkit is.
I understand that balancing a game with 30+ specs is no simple feat, and that this sounds like one of the countless “balance 1v1 because I lost!!” arguments, but I think it’s pretty obvious what needs to be done. Mages have had 15 years of being a favored class, but I think it’s about time that we address the 800 pound gorilla in the room:
Ranged classes, as a whole, suffer due to the design choices behind Mages. If they brought Mages into line, they could adjust ALL Melee specs (minus maybe Ret and DK) to be far less mobile. This will no doubt frustrate Melee players, but I think most rational people will agree that Melee is a bit too sticky in this iteration of the game…
Majority of players are melee, due to fact every new class has been melee.
Certain aspects of pvp favour melee and vice versa. It’s all situational.
I really think this is spot-on, and I said so myself countless times back in Wrath and Cataclysm when Moonkins were utter garbage in PvP.
I’ve mained Hunter for a very long time. Problem is, I enjoy the occasional WPvP and we’ll… It usually kinda works…until I run into a melee class that actually knows how to play their class. It doesn’t matter how good you are at a ranged class… if you run into an equally skilled melee… you’re done.
I’ve since shelved my Hunter and will put all of my focus on this rogue…being the melee terror that harasses those poor solo ranged classes.
This is the meat of the argument; an equally skilled Melee WILL win in a 1v1 situation. Yes, there are a handful This is not something that can be balanced for, as it is a 1v1 situation. Something like the Deepcoral Pod does to Melee what Melee’s design does to Ranged, that is to say it hard counters it.
World PvP needs to be opened up to as much cheese like this as can possibly be thought up. Rogues had literally half an entire expansion with a follower that, when used on a player from range, you could essentially 1-shot them. I get that Rogues are supposed to operate like that lore-wise, but when you add in that legendary cloak the quite literally let you 1 shot full Raid groups, instantly, with very little CD, you start to see the problem / potential solution.
If everything in the game has some means of doing things like the situation above, there would no doubt be some complaining, but I would bet my account that the amount of negative feedback would be far lower than the current issues of Tanks being invulnerable, Melee being made of glue, and Healers that can’t handle being attacked by 2 people without having their cloths neatly folded while they’re still wearing them.
Add more things like Deepcoral Pods! Take the completely unnecessary damage reductions OFF of things like Mechagon Scrapyard Tinker consumable damage items (grenades/bombs/etc.), and FFS take the reductions applied to player abilities and Azerite traits OFF when in World PvP! Things almost immediately balance out if everyone is a massive threat at all times, rather than just some specs of some classes.
Like I said in an above post, if everything is overpowered, nothing is overpowered.
What ranged classes are having this issue? Hunters as BM are clearly fine, elemental shamans are fine too, mage frost/arcane can kite easily and fire mages while having a much higher issue do have a very good burst. Warlocks on 1v1 are extremely powerful and tanky, Spriests can heal a lot while damaging. I only feel sorry for boomkins they do suck lol.
The only melle that wins all vs1 situations are fury warrs.
Unless you’re fighting a Frost Mage, a properly played DH, Unholy DK, Ret Paladin, and Rogue are also just about impossible to 1v1 as Ranged. Windwalker used to be, but isn’t quite as bad anymore. The important part of this is ‘properly played’.
Anecdotal accounts aside, the toolkit available to the specs mentioned above are sufficient to, when used properly, counter almost any Ranged spec with relative ease. Yes, you can win versus these specs from time to time as Ranged, but that almost always requires the Melee player to have made a mistake. Yes, these mistakes do happen in PvP all the time, but we’re talking about whether or not the potential is there, when played correctly, to win basically every time.
Provided the person you’re fighting is doing it wrong, I totally agree with you. Playing a Ranged spec with the least dependable CC in the game leaves quite a bit to be desired… They NEED to bring back Earthbind root.
DH’s too, outside of Naz and Mech, mobs die extremely fast if you’re ilvl 410 or higher, DHs just run away with all their mobility and just gather up some mobs, and eyebeam them all and heal from it. Maybe WW monks can do that too if they still have that healing orb mechanic.
I think just being able to mind flay while moving would help shadow out a lot. They really do have the weakest kiting capability compared to the other ranged classes.
Not trying to be rude, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
DHs don’t run away to kill mobs, why would they when they can just sit on you and DPS you down and heal from it? DHs have to stay aggressive, their kit does not allow for resets nor would they want resets because it defeats their whole playstyle.
smh…
Also wrong.
Arcane/Fire are top tier against melee, Ele is strong, Destro/Demo still strong, Spriest believe it or not is actually quite tanky and puts out good pressure, BM Hunter is top tier as well.
Ranged have options.
I had a good lol at this one. Get yourself some pods and jump around. Even when melee come at me, most of the time I can get away if it’s not too laggy.
Regardless of what is best in a 1v1, I fully agree that ranged vs melee is generally much closer than it was in Legion.
if you have a large amount of issues with being a sticky target, idk …outside of dk’s you cna shake most things for a brief window