I find myself wondering why I am raiding . . . For Heroic Raiding, you receive Wyrm crests, even for Heroic Fyarrk, while doing a 16 Mythic Plus gives Aspect crests. Anyone else find raiding being undermined and not worth the effort?
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Raiding is mostly for early tier set and some op trinkets.
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I think a lot of avenues in WoW have gone up in value while raiding has remained static or even doubled down on previous poor aspects. With other content rewarding more closely you may now be asking âwhat does raid offer me if it doesnât hold gear above other contents headâ.
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This is the correct answerâŚespecially the trinkets
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Only way to get myth track gear from M+ is once/week from the vault, whereas mythic raid offers all myth track gear. So, M+ doesnât undermine raids only because mythic raid exists. It does however make the lower raid tiers largely unnecessary for gearing / sense of progress, and that was the point of making this mode. Because not everyone can find the time / people to raid with, but a large majority can find 30-45min to run a dungeon.
If you want to discuss the loot parade that is M+, we can have that conversation 
Mythic raid is barely worth it, already a couple weeks in I was 486 without having done any mythic raids.
You get 1 piece of mythic raid value out of M+ vault every week.
You get 2 pieces of loot from fully clearing a mythic raid which barely anyone does early.
People are extending really early because it isnât worth to reclear much.
I actually joined a group on Mythic fyrakk for CE and was as geared as any of them without having touch the raid on mythic this patch.
Perhaps a conversation needs to be had about how easily you can gear up in M+ to mythic raid levels. I think the upgrade system will be toned down in TWW or the other expansions in the âSagaâ, but we havenât heard about it yet because they donât want us to riot 
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The upgrade system being added to raiding did make it way more worth to farm after the first weeks at least on heroic. But I still feel mythic could offer a bit more goodies and Iâm all for the 2 last bosses to drop higher item level than anything outside of them at least which are pretty good incentives and make reclear easier. Raid loot probably should be buffed overall in term of quantity by around 30% or some kind of balance in term of amount of bosses, because smaller raids offer technically less loot weekly.
As far as the crests too they probably should add more to raiding, M+ is the only viable way to farm crests specifically aspect crests.
Raid loot doesnât need a qualitative edge, it needs a quantitative boost.
Massively increase the amount that drops per boss.
Remove weekly lockouts.
And let people still get drops during extend-a-thons.
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I would disagree with this. Qualitative gives it more value, those op trinkets are one of the main reason for loot to do raids. They might not be higher ilvl but they kinda are anyway.
The weekly lockout is fine as it is we donât need to turn everything more in a race than it is already.
The vault is mostly the problem with extending, if they added a system back like bonus rolls you would at least be able to stack them while extending.
How would that work? A guild extends and progs a boss all week, but doesnât get a kill at all, and the GV should still be filled 3 slots on the raid row?
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(Speaking only for Heroic and below)
I think both systems are worth it for organised groups. Raiding with a good regular group tends to be easy mode. M+ is great for PuGs and organised groups.
So the way it works for my mains guild (Shadow Vanguard) is that we do Heroic on two days. Roughly 10-15 active people so we can usually get either two M+ running and usually have a filled raid night (sessions are small 60-90 minute ones, with hope of downing 1/2 the bosses).
So the gearing process for the average member is M+ first, but then raid can fill the gear gaps to round out ppls item levels.
I see both content as complimenting one another. While I can continue spamming m+ to try and round out gear, I find it less tedious by having raid drops/vault to add to the gear options.
M+ is really just for crest and the weekly vault, after 2 full clears of just normal/heroic raids you are basically fully heroic ilv already.
i am not gear motivated so at times i find raiding fun
it all depends
If youâre getting full geared in 2weeks of raids youâre pretty lucky. the average amount of gear you get is 2 per raids so unless you get a funnel good luck with that.
Not fully geared, but closer to heroic ilv, so around 480. I am a tank and I was one of the last was to get any gear, still by the second week I waa 475 and by the third week I was 480. Dps in my guild were even higher.
With smart loot distribution you donât really need to do much m+ for loot.
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You will be weeks if not months behind if you only do raids for loot.
The average is 2 pieces of a week, M+ is unlimited.
You probably just got lucky.
Looking at your logs you are lying. You were 443 first week and 460 2 weeks later.
I was 463 on the first week and 477 2 weeks later and I did m+. You are way late.
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See, I find myself on the other side.
I donât raid, because I canât find a group (european hours), and once I get to my item level I donât care much for M+.
I want that feeling of defeating a huge boss doing tactics with a bunch of people on discord.
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Heroic raids should drop aspect crests and reward mythic vault. Itâs crazy that 18âs give better rewards than heroic raids. A lot more people would sign up for heroic raids if you could farm aspects and mythic vault slots in them.
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