Raiding can be more than just gear farming

I’ve noticed a very narrow-minded view that depends on the false idea that raiding is only about gear. The argument tries to make M+ the culprit for invalidating raiding even though you can run 1000s of keys to farm a single item that can never drop.

Please understand that to tons of players, raiding is FAR FAR FAR more than just gear especially when gear becomes obsolete every few months.

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They should just nerf M+ gears and tell them that M+ can be more than just gear farming.

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M+ is also already more than just gear farming.

To the point above, WoW content is a lot more than just farming gear. It’s a part of the game, sure. But it’s not the primary reason motivating many players.

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What would this accomplish?

Take the gear out and raids would die.

Even if you love raiding, most wouldn’t do it without the gear, it’s the reward for the time put in.

Same with M+

Maybe even pvp (though that’s a bit less black and white, a lot of people do enjoy pvp for pvp)

Its not narrow minded idea. Its how some ppl see it as a fun. Its just a reason for some guys to raid, and why they enjoy it.

Its not a false idea, its just what some like about it and why they do it. Its like me saying that your opinion of taking out the gear and raiding for anything else besides gear is false narrow minded idea. :person_shrugging:

No one said it was false. Narrow minded - as in only looking at a subset, which is accurate when you consider that the argument is generally made as an absolute, rather than a personal opinion.

PvP Participation tanked hard in Legion and it’s templates coming off WoD where anyone could get full conquest (basically the same system as DF).

I think it’s just the nature of WoW being a character improving game and gear is part of it.

I think the majority want that aspect.

Wanting the game to be solely skill based tends to be an attitude of the upper end players who just want to push their content and don’t really care about the gearing and progression of their RPG character.

Id bet any amount of money people would still raid if they could get gear outside of raid. The the point in the OP, there are more reasons to raid that just gear. Maybe not for everyone, but for tons of people raiding isn’t narrowly focused around just the gear you get off bosses.

You would have some, but i’d bet participation would plummet with no tangible reward

Back during Legion mythic raiders would say they raid for the camaraderie, or for the challenge. It was during BfA we first started seeing players saying they only did the content they do because of their need for bis gear, and they would quit the instant they got that. I once mentioned this, and the poster said that anyone who said they were raiding for any other reason than gear was lying.

People have raided for gear since 2004, they’ve always said both things because different types of people play the game.

This was how it worked for 6+ years and M+ was still more popular than raiding. In fact, raiding still gives better gear than M+ and M+ is still more popular.

for me it’s the logistics of 5 vs 20+

Group content in this game is no different than a real raid on a village you have one goal in mind and that is to take what ever is valuable no matter the cost that includes gear. M+ is no different either,you are in fact robbing . So if you have one goal you are calibrating with each other that means a partnership. So yeah it more than farming but the gear could be the icing on the cake or the demise .LOL.

yes, it can also be used to transmog farm. (looking at you lfr)

Accessibility alone is always going to make it more popular.

Also virtually anyone raiding also does mythic+, so it’s popularity is raiders AND everyone else.

The opposite isn’t true to nearly the same degree.

And overall I think that is fine as is.

It covers people who want to progress in content that’s easier to access than raids and also people who want more to outside of raids. It covers both pretty well.

Do people really raid for gear? There’s no way people raid for gear. That’s so many hours just for a couple of Raz pieces. I mean then what? Just… unsub?

Even when raiding was the only way to obtain the objectively best gear in the game, the people who raided for gear were superficial and f weird man.

Raiding is about friends overcoming obstacles you happy little bastards. If you’re raiding for gear you’re delusional.

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Rewards in general need to be reworked. There’s just way too much rng right now.

Bingo. One of the various other reasons to raid besides gear.

I’d like to see them make a competitive server that’s permanent. All the end game content and your character is basically just a spreadsheet where you pick and choose optimal gear then go push. Idk how popular it would be, but seems fun in theory.

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