well i know about preset raid times, but those guilds wont raid outside those times too and its only one dedicated group and this is from my own experience at least with some of them.
Well yeah, you have a raid team. That’s the whole point of the guild.
Not sure why anyone would join a raiding guild if they weren’t part of the raid team. (We don’t even allow people to join who aren’t on the raid team, unless they’re friend/family of somebody already in the guild.)
Ah see thats my common experience. I can’t join a guild if i’m not in the raid team, and i can’t join the raid team unless i know someone, or i’m already decked out / with achieve.
When are you trying to find a team?
Like… right now is a terrible time to find a raid team. Because a whole bunch of people are trying to get into one.
Two months ago was a fantastic time to try and get into a team.
sorry don’t know how to reply to two different posts at once and i cant double post as op. But asmongold only said there is a underlying problem to why people don’t want to raid and its up to blizzard to figure what that is and solve it. He never gave his opinionated solution, just said there was a problem that needed solving. And I wanted to talk about what that problem could be and hence the big post i made believing what that problem actually is and what could be done to fix said problem.
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well i joined late wotlk, tried to find a good raiding guild throughout all of cata. Couldn’t find a single one, had a lot of hostile experiences cause i was new and didn’t know what i was doing. Somewhat attempted in mop and didn’t find a good one till late mop. Which i stood with till it fell apart in late WoD. Was pretty much alone till the end of BFA where i ended up joining a dedicated raid guild with ahead of the curve as my reward, they kicked me because i refused to progress to mythic. And found one in the beginning of Shadowlands that fell apart pretty fast (still in) and pretty much left the game at that point.
The problem is that Mythic+ is totally out of whack with the rest of the game’s system. It’s incredibly easy and fast, and gives unbelievably strong rewards considering how easy it is.
Normal raiding guilds are almost extinct thanks to M+, and Heroic guilds are critically endangered.
And the problem isn’t “M+ gives better rewards in a fraction of the time and with incredibly easy difficulty”, the problem is that Blizzard tunes the raids on the assumption that everyone is getting geared through M+. So if you don’t do M+, the raids are overtuned. Therefore, everyone must do M+ in order to get the gear so that they CAN raid.
This didn’t happen overnight, it started at the beginning of Legion when M+ was added, and has slowly been getting worse as Blizzard has made M+ easier and easier, made M+ more and more rewarding, and made the raids harder, longer, and more of a chore than ever before.
And Blizzard shows zero signs of changing any of this.
(Also, this is where the M+ brigade breaks down the door and says that they’re entitled to their super-easy gear for almost zero effort, and it doesn’t matter if that has detrimental effects on all other aspects of the game.)
And since you mentioned players being hostile and “looking down” on others, I thought it important to remind you of one of the biggest offenders of that environment in WOW. When Asmongold decided to go FF14 my first thought was great, maybe he will take his toxic fandom with him.
Far as why people choose not to raid, reasons usually include time and/or not wanting to deal with other players. All of which is fine. There are plenty of other activities to do in the game and LFR is there for those that want to see the story. The only thing I wouldn’t mind seeing changed is the number of bosses involved and the ridiculous number of mechanics. I think eight bosses is more than enough for a raid and they need to either reduce the mechanics or make it to where casters can cast while moving.
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I always wanted harder dungeons that gave better gear the harder it was. So I was really happy how mythic plus turned out. However it went from anything a casual can do to being gated to a raider io score, and a tool / barrier for raiders to use. But ultimatly my ideology heavily differs from many end content enjoyers. I’m here for casual fun, to have a good time that i can burn through the day. The entire idea of you don’t deserve good things if you dont do hard things is the exact opposite of casual fun, and thats how video games were introduced and thats how successful video games stayed successful. But now we just have a lot of people who want to compete over each other on who has the bigger **** so they can feel superior over others.
Hence why you have two different groups in the slime cat debate. The ones who want it to be in LFR because thats what the achievement said before the change / casual easy approach. And those who want it as a reward for “challenging content” even though “normal isn’t hard, its easier than LFR!”. The notion is just “I got this and you don’t, hence i’m superior to you and that makes me feel better about myself” and thats what the end game boils down to. Is people can feel better about themselves for doing harder content that other people cant.
That’s the entire point of RPG’s, though, since Dungeons & Dragons came out in 1974. Like the creator of D&D wrote repeatedly, rewards must come from appropriately challenging difficulty. If you want good rewards, you have to beat good opponents.
You don’t have 2 groups in the slime cat debate, you have trolls and you have everybody else. The same people trolling about the slime cat are the same people who troll about flying. Nobody actually dislikes flying, they just see an opportunity to needle people whenever it comes up, and they jump at the chance because they’re jerks.
Likewise, nobody actually cares if LFR players get the slime cat mount or not. And I fully expect Blizzard to have the achievement match the achievement text. At which point there will be yet more drama about “Blizzard is really listening” or such, about something they were obviously going to do anyway once the discrepancy was pointed out to them.
People are making a big deal over nothing, IMHO. It’s gonna get fixed.
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I just want to clarify i’m not against difficult content, and prestige rewards behind them. But I am heavily against FOMO. I didn’t even participate in the slime cat discussions till I found out it was FOMO.
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It’s not because of that. People who don’t participate in organized group activities, know not to expect a participation reward from LFR. The only time I can remember getting a Mount from completing LFR was the Obsidian Worldbreaker, and that was a pleasant surprise.
The problem is the wording of the achievement, the news saying that LFR will be a fated raid (hence, it was ok to assume LFR will get the achievement too, according to those two things), and Blizzard suddenly deciding LFR doesn’t get the mount.
The cherry on the top was the unfortunate message from the Community Manager, hoping for some random group carrying people through 32 bosses, as if it was the same as a friendship aotc mount (just one boss).
This isn’t how it works at all and you’ve never tried to join a raiding guild.
Most casual guilds do not care at all if you are playing the meta spec. Even up to most AOTC guilds don’t care. Mythic guilds will care but if you turn up and do good damage, the reality is nobody ever bothers to stop you and ask you to play the meta spec.
And literally nobody ever bothers to talk about your race choice. This is a myth
Casual guilds for normal and heroic are almost always willing to take in someone who is willing to learn the mechanics, do some prep, learn your class and perform reasonably. If you perform unreasonably, then practice some more and come back later when you are better. The more hardcore guilds will have higher standards and you can apply to those once you have experience from the casual guilds and have practice.
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As GM of a long-time Cutting Edge Mythic guild, I can vouch for this.
I don’t go through everybody’s talents/conduits/whatever. If they’re raiding Mythic, then they’re going to have the initiative and desire to make sure by themselves that everything’s working as it should be.
If somebody’s struggling and doesn’t know why they’re not doing better, and asks for help, then yeah we’ll all put our heads together and see what needs improving.
But this notion that raiding teams are a bunch of sharks always circling in the water… it’s just not true.
As for races… well, I raid Mythic as a Vulpera, and Vulpera racials aren’t that great… 
Ah yes, the sole experience of yourself is more than enough proof to call out many others who have had these experiences as liers. I was gated as paladin many times because either “we have to many paladins in this raid group or to many melee”. Didn’t matter if i was a dps or not. And I didn’t say exclusively casual, i said raiding with guilds in general. There is a lot of gate keeping in the games community or it wouldn’t have such a notorious reputation for it, and if blizzard didn’t promote it they wouldn’t of installed their own raider io variant into the game. Experience, race, class, spec, or what ever there will and always be a form of gate keeping to prevent new, inexperienced, or non hardcore meta min maxers from participating in specific groups. And when i say specific groups i dont mean all groups. To call me out as a lier is a insult and you should back up your claims with more than just personal experiences.
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I disagree. Gatekeeping and community standards that no longer consider helping others who aren’t you’re buddy’s alts to be acceptable are a direct result of the intention conversion of the playerbase from one where people of a range of abilities would play at least some content together to a “win at all costs” esports mentality where the only reason to play is to get bis gear as proof you are better than players you have never met and will never have anything to do with.
The “bis gear is the only correct goal” permeates the game culture right now. Elitists are convinced that casuals must covet their gear, because that’s the only reason to play the game. You are supposed to choose your friends by how useful they will be to you in the short run, and ditch them if they change. It’s all about putting together a winning team now, and running it like a temp agency.
We see so many comments by these self-styled “pros” nowadays that boil down to “This game is a pro sports league and has always been. What are you doing in a pro sports league if you aren’t willing to spend unlimited amounts of time and money to reach the pinnacle of success?”
This is apparently what devs wanted. The conversion has been successful, and they are continuing to push this on players. Hey, where did everybody go?
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Well thats the more evolved form of it yes, but i’m not that bright in making an arguement for that, even though i agree with you.
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Less so whenever they want, but there are many guilds that will take anyone interested due to flex raiding.
As long as you aren’t severely under geared, and have taken the 3 mins to at least watch the fights they will take those interested during raid times.
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Hi Haavi, haven’t seen ya in awhile i think. But yeah i’m not arguing for people who are under gear or dead weight, or those who refuse to learn. I hate being a burden myself and if i find myself bringing down the team i’ll resign for a replacement till i can get better and if i can’t i apologize for wasting their time. But flex raiding is best raiding.
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Problem with this whole post is… listening to a streamer who gets carried through everything and handed all special items in wow, and gets traded insane amounts of gold.
Stop bringing this guy up, he’s all talk.
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