Quoted what I’ve put elsewhere since it’s relevant to what you just stated.
I think you’re missing my point AND the OP’s point.
The issue isn’t about speed. It’s about the paths NOT being PARALLEL because the secondary stats available aren’t the same in M+ vs Raid.
So regardless of speed, you won’t end up in the same result down each path regardless of how long the timeline is.
If there was a way to adjust the stats on raid gear, then sure. But without that, raid gear seems to offer less stat combinations overall than M+. This is the issue being brought up in the OP.
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You will though since I do believe you’ll be able to clear the entire Mythic Raid with just the raid gear given. Being the most optimal does not mean you CAN’T do the content, plus they’ll likely do another gear pass before it actually launches anyways.
We’re not even at the month away mark yet, and the raid, rated PVP, and M+ content won’t be out for a few weeks after launch anyways, so we’re a good two months away before all this becomes relevant.
That still doesn’t mean you’ll end up in the same place, supporting the “parallel” statement.
They likely don’t mean parallel based purely on secondary stats, they mean it based purely on ilvl, which just further supports all of my statements made. haha
I don’t think that’s what they mean by parallel progression.
They are looking M+, Raid, and Arena as the three main pillars of end game progression and you can focus on either for meaningful rewards.
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Given the impact secondary stats have on player power, basing it on ilvl wouldn’t make sense in terms of player progression.
But yes, if it was intended to refer to ilvl, a player can max out at the same ilvl. It’s just disingenuous to say those are parallel when there are big power differentials beyond ilvl.
But again, you’ll be able to do all the content at a high level with just the items you gain from the singular thing. If you want to be the HIGHEST tier of something, you’ve always had to put more effort in by doing more parts of the game. It nets you the most options and thus you become the most optimal.
But that’s not what the “parallel” statement supports. They specifically state that time to advance is the variable, not power level.
Power level isn’t the same at “max” down each path, making them not parallel in terms of actual power. In an arbitrary ilvl number perspective, I guess sure, but that means nothing when a maxed out player from each M+/Raid path go toe to toe together. In that case, with no diversification, the M+ raider comes out ahead because of the secondary stat diversity.
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Misunderstandings is not the same as being disingenuous.
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That is not what it states and you’ve already agreed that it’s speaking purely of ilvl power. It is not speaking of secondary stats as much as you’re wanting it to. You can say it SHOULD mean this all you want, but it doesn’t and I highly doubt they’re going to add four different combinations of secondary stats to every piece of gear type in the raid, specially with how hard they’re making gear drops to become and asking them to is…asinine.
You’re trying to argue the semantics of your definition of “parallel”
You might be better off asking the devs for clarification what they expect end game progression to be.
I also want to stress you’re not a bloody e-sports athlete. Your ability to get perfect itemization will not hinder your ability to play the game in all forms of content.
Progression means something different here, than what you’re providing. It’s pushing weekly high content to it’s maximum point. If you’re required to gear through M Raid to be able to push progression in other content, then that is exactly on my point. We’re parsing words of Blizzard, and if their intent is to have M+ and PvP be worthless to the progression of their own content, it should be explicitly stated. As I read this post, it’s double speaking the opposite - and indicating to players the design intent is to provide a parallel path of progression through M+ and PvP by where characters in their own space can earn gear to progress that content.
Sorry if this was unclear to you, hopefully now it is.
Edit: Just as a note here… We’re arguing on systems that further fraction the player base. It doesn’t even help the max raiders. For multiple reasons, these players are leveling 4 of the same class to cover their bases in progression within their own preferred content. As I see it, this development decision only helps casual raid loggers, which is a weird community to hyper focus on (as the “only viable community”, based on current game design).
We should, as a community, be debating these ideas to inform blizzard of player outcomes from game design.
Progression means something different then what you’re providing actually. Because you won’t need to use any gear from secondary options to take part and push content. You’re speaking of an entirely different type of progression course. One for the top tier, to whom will always search for the most optimal way of doing something. Be it class stacking the broken class, using cheese/broken methods, etc.
They’ll push those tactics in every single form of gameplay possible. They are the only ones that will ever be “required” by their own rulesets of wanting to be the most optimal and of the highest tier first and foremost. Blizzard can’t really do anything about that and that is most certainly NOT what they’re addressing when they talk of progressionary paths as that only effects a tiny percentile of the playerbase.
This is our exact point of contention. Raid does not… All others DO.
Whether intended or not, the game design’s outcome is a psychological manipulation of player interest to require one path of itemization & engagement, just so that players can adequately compete in other preferred content
That’s very false. Any player can push content in Rated PVP or M+'s. One of my best friends HATES PVE, hardly will do it, but we were doing Rated RBG’s all the time and he was doing fine. Again, you’re talking of the people that want to push and be the BEST. Anyone can do anything in the game currently. Hell I’d argue M+ and Rated PVP are EASIER to get into for someone like him, then ever getting accepted for a Mythic Raid group.
I’ve provided the math above, please back read on item drop rates, etc.
For a player to be even remotely within a similar gear threshold (to raid peers, casualing other content) within their own systems of interest, from “parallel gearing routes”, will actually require players to only participate in one content path (Raid). (Read last sentence as: To be able to compete in progression of content of interest, with those not interested in said content, but only vacationing here)
Which is stated in blue to not be the design intent (but players that do compete in 2+ will have an advantage, due to leveraging all potential gearing opportunities)
That was not stated by the blue, the blue stated a player will have an advantage by doing multiple sources. The only thing the blue stated was that during the course of a seasonal tier, aka 8.0 to 8.1, that you’d find yourself on a parallel path of gear ilvl progression by the end.
By the end, everyone, if they’re gearing weekly, will have the same ilvl of Mythic Raid level, assuming they’re pushing the highest tier.
It is NOT required either, as most early Mythic Raid level gear will come purely from the vault, only a small percentile of players will even be touching Mythic Raiding early, and yes that will give them an advantage but they’d only be double dipping in every category as many of these players are the ones that are pushing high keys ANYWAYS. If you make M+'s drop the same gear, it’s basically just opening the flood gates to these types of players that will then be double dipping and in many cases triple dipping from Rated PVP too.
Anyone will be able to, over the course of the tier, do the content they want. You as a player will never NEED to step into a raid to push a +15 in 8.1. You just might not be doing it as fast as those who -do- and I think that’s what bothers you.
I did not agree to that. I said it wouldn’t make sense:
They don’t have to. They can add the functionality of adjusting gear stats to crafted items to raid gear to truly make the paths parallel in terms of raw player power.
Based on the things that make sense, sure. Raw ilvl doesn’t relate to player power the way secondary stats work. So trying to tie a statement touching on “parallel power progression” doesn’t make sense to be tied with ilvl.
/facepalm. It makes perfect sense and if you can’t understand that, I’m not even going to bother arguing with someone that CLEARLY doesn’t want to listen to logic and just wants what they want, now saying they need to make crafting gear equal in terms of raid gear. /smh