Not to simplify a lot of good points here, but I feel if they want progression in PvP the rating requirements just need to come way down.
2400 is WAY to high for 226 gear.
They haven’t set the requirements yet from what I understand, but it needs to be much lower.
That would be fine, lowering it AND decreasing slots.
I personally never had a problem with the 2200 for Weapons. You can raid or do M+ for a weapon. Getting better trinkets for PVE was never a problem with me either.
You should have to branch out a bit to be best in slot I think. BFAs problem was that PVE was required for the majority. With a 2400 rating lock for 226, that doesn’t change either.
Locking 226 to Rival for small slots, 2k for Helm, Shoulders, and Chest, and 2200 for Weapons, with 220 being obtainable for all, would be fine even, still a hard wall kind of, but its alot easier to climb then saying here take herioc gear and beat people with the same skill and mythic gear.
All this Rating lock with actual Vendors and a PVP stat will create, is Q dodging Glads, who will then Q into 1800 players in Heroic gear, farm them for 75% win rates and everyone will stay where they are until they PVE for gear. It will delete all middle ratings, as the people that have the 226, will farm the 1600s they constantly Q into while dodging the others in their bracket.
Yes, because LoL is a completely different type of game then WoW. It’s like comparing WoW to CS:GO or Valorant. You’re comparing apples and oranges at that point. There’s a reason why the EXACT thing you’re talking about(Gear not mattering, Rating Progression mattering more then anything) was attempted and univerisally hated, lasted a single expac then moved on from because people LIKE getting gear upgrades that actually matter.
This isn’t going to get me to raid.
I’m just going to do less M+…
Except what your missing is the same can be said about the Rating locked gear we have now.
That was tried in BC, and Removed in Wrath all but Weapons. The Weapons carried till Cata where in MOP it was STILL Being complained about. Then finnaly removed for even weapons.
I agreed, its an MMO people dont want to be equal, however the Rating system doesn’t work either.
What did work? MOP, WOD, all PVPers have the ability to earn the same gear, Rating being higher increases the speed you earn it, accompanied with titles ect.
Your also once again missing the biggest complaint about legions issue. It was not the normalization, it was the lack of choice in the stat templates. Chooseable templates like GW2, would have been better received.
The other issue you also pinpointed. And so did I, the people complaining about that system, were mostly PVErs who are not good at PVP, and feel they deserve the right to 1 shot PVPers, in their PVE gear.
That was not the biggest complaint. The by far biggest complaint was gear being utterly worthless, most PVP’ers I knew outright quit damn fast because it got boring, with only rating being the thing that changed. Legion PVP is considered one of the worst PVP systems in WoW’s history. Also, most pvp’ers/old time players I know wish PVP would go BACK to BC/Wrath, not only for loot but how it played. Saying that was the best times for PVP they remember and Cata being a real turning point of where things started going down hill.
Well then the “PvPers” you knew, were not really PVPers at all.
There was FAR More people in the rated ladder for every Legion season then there was in the BFA seasons. Participation went down in BFA not up.
What about Gear lvl increasing depending on how much conquest you have earned for PVP? After say say 200 2v2 in a season you are eligible for 213 ilvl gear. After 300 games you can get 217 ilvl gear, etc… up to 226.
The problem with rating lock like Daemonic said is that gladiators will eventually carry everyone for their rating gear.
Because less people continued to play in BfA in general…? Legion was a highly popular expansion in comparison. LOL BfA had spots of being one of the worst expansions for player count in modern WoW history.
You’re skewing these facts to better servve your narrative sadly too. Most people HATED systems like Azerite, so they quit in 8.0, 8.1. And it was a steady decline. It was not a PVP issue in BfA, it was a WoW issue.
Thats the way it used to be,
Earn 7250 Season conquest to buy “Elite Weapon” Which then cost 2k conquest.
There was nothing wrong with that system at all. Nothing wrong with Giving Glads 5x more conquest per win either.
You are confusing different thoughts here.
And I can tell you right now, that no real PVPer is leaving the PVP scene because “I have no gear left to get” for starters I dont think their is a PVPer alive that has only 1 character.
Nor do PVPers care about gear, they care about Rating. I want to show off my Glad mount and title, not my PVE gear…
Im not impressed by someones 477 ilvl, I am impressed with their 3s company 2700 though.
The people your refrencing were not real PVPers, they want free rating for Gear Advantage, they dont want to earn what they get in Fair fights. They are the people killing level 20s to boost HKs.
Some people who leave leave for real life reasons. Often they come back when their real life situation changes.
Based on my discussions with people who play classic, I think that most people, ie regulars who leave do so because of changes to the game they didn’t like. People in classic were always glad to tell me exactly why they stopped playing retail, just as people who quit in wod over the flight removal debacle were always happy to talk about it. And most of the people who quit over pathfinder and came back to try again were quitting again.
There’s tons. I only play one character for example. I enjoy only playing one character, no matter what I’m doing in whatever game I’m playing. Be it raiding, PVP, WoW Professions, whatever it may be, I’ll do it on that singular character. Good portion of my friends are like this too. That’s not to say their main character in whatever game we’re playing may not change from for example an 8.0 to 8.1, but most people I know don’t have alts that they play and maintain regularly.
So saying, not a single PVP’er, is silly. You’re likely referencing only the TOP TIER of PVP’er, which luckily Blizz isn’t investing a ton of time into your opinions, since most of your opinions aren’t for the majority.
Just like the people in here saying M+ Needs to drop equal gear to Mythic or Heroic Raids. /lolno
Please explain to us why a player should receive 226 Ilvl gear for completing Mythic Raid but only receive 210 ilvl gear for competing in PVP and Mythic +.
And that’s EXACTLY the problem. The only people that have access to be competitive on the M+ ladder ARE raiders. If someone plays every night M+ and accumulates 500 hours over the season, why should they be at ANY disadvantage to a CE raider that has 200 hours in raid and 100 hours in M+? This makes no sense. Look at the top of the M+ ladder, all of those players have mythic raid loot. Even if it is just regular 475 loot and not the broken trinkets/weapons/485/490 loot the fact they have 475 raid loot means they can cover some slots that the weekly chest didn’t provide for.
Also, you are completely wrong not all top players in M+ have access to mythic raids. Take tanks, for example, there are twice as many tanks needed for M+ than for Mythic raid (due to the ratio of tanks required to other roles). So look at all tanks clearing 20+ or better only half of them have access to broken raid loot.
It is an incredibly unfair and unfun system for the 50% of tanks capable of pushing very high keys.
No player will have 233 ilvl; only the last two bosses drop that iLevel and most likely it’ll be a weapon for some classes, trinket for others, and a shoulder / head piece.
For all intents and purposes the difference between a high-rated PvPer and a fully completed Mythic raider will be around 3-4 iLevels; the biggest advantage will come from most likely powerful burst trinkets / weapon procs / set procs that a PvP’er likely won’t have.
Tit for Tat, if both players were equally skilled at PvP; I have no doubt that the PvE geared player will utterly destroy the PvP player.
However, PvE’rs that can PvP are rare / few and vice versa; two entirely different gameplay styles.
It doesn’t really matter anyway; 950 guilds completed 12/12 M and only 13847 players are 2.2k rated or higher.
Sources for my data were check-pvp and wow-progress.
I think the sentiment here, around this comment, is the possibility to achieve those (maximally), in each content system is wiiiiiildly off. It’s not a “progression path”, if it requires only one path for “progression” in it’s own preferred content.
The amount of PVPers that can PVE is a high overlap, just they may not choose to because it’s not interesting or fun to them. Sounds like they’re both difficult in differing ways, and should be rewarded.
You do get 226 ilvl gear for doing those. PVP’ers get points they can spend weekly and if they have the correct rating, they can get it, aswell as a their weekly vault BS. M+ is just a side PVE thing, that is a spammable affair, that is just meant to give PVE’ers something to do on non-raid nights but still gives them a weekly Mythic Raid Equivlant Item.
Making it give equal gear to Mythic Raiding outside of that weekly, just makes gear irrelevant in a 2020 WoW where gear was already SUPER easy to get, hence why they’re trying to make epics feel like epics again and not blues.
A Mythic Raider will have between 226 Ilvl and 233 Ilvl. A player that does only PVP will have 210 ilvl loot + Weekly cache. Tell me what happens if you keep getting Chest + Belt + Boots option week after weeks in your weekly cache (Great Vault). The PVP player will be at a disadvantage of about 7 to 11% player power compared to the Mythic raider.
The actual problem is, most people that push hardcore M+'s will want to do Mythic Raiding anyways. I’m sure you’ll find the rare few who cry about it and don’t want to but the majority want to raid, as that’s been WoW’s bread and butter since '04. You can find dungeon crawling experiences elsewhere, high level raiding? Not so much. If you make M+ give crazy levels of loot, it’ll make finishing the raids WAY too easy, most people will feel FORCED to do M+ to do raids, even moreso then they already do now, as most serious raid guilds require you to be pushing M+'s -anyways. I can only imagine if they gave loot equal to the highest raid tiers how horrible that would be for most players in the game. Forget having a life.