Raid vs Mythic+ loot tables

[Lërne-zuljin]

@Manager-korgath

Please explain why you should not be able to get Raid equivalent loot from doing High end Mythic plus (top 1%)

You think only 1% of the player base does M+ 15 ?? Are you trolling ?? It’s like 40% of the player base right now LOL

That is not what i said. What i am asking is that the players that do high M+ (Currently in BFA it would be lvl 25+ keys) should receive loot similar to mythic raiding because they are similar or harder than mythic raiding.

[Manager-korgath]

Lol they never said +15 was my “High end Mythic Plus”

More then M+15 is non sense talk, the rewards dosent get better after +15.

So of course im only talking about m+15

[Pandar-firetree]

@Argorwal-ysera

Honestly, it’s easy to get riled up on the forums and I probably should spend less time here. The forums are my “waste time on my phone” pass time like others probably scroll Facebook and Instagram but I would probably be better served just putting my phone on the other side of the house and doing something more useful during downtime lol.

Hey I fully understand this, friend, and thank you for being cordial!

[Lërne-zuljin]

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

This is an MMO not an action RPG. Gear acquisition must be throttled in some manner.

In this case blizzard should say that the only end game content is Mythic Raiding.

The issue is that they voiced a different idea in this thread. See:

@Kaivax

the very strongest loot in WoW comes from the three organized multiplayer endgame progression paths: Rated PvP, Mythic Keystone dungeons, and raiding

[Pandar-firetree]

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

Historically dungeon gear wasn’t always the most desirable. Always seen entry level for Raids/PvP.

I don’t agree with this point. At least one citation would include things like Titanic legplates being BIS for a while, etc…

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

Because the M+ weekly chest can award some mythic level items I image the high end raiders will still view the weekly important for BIS stats

I provided a solution to this, above.

@Pandar-firetree

Please consider alternative ideas in the weeks ahead. Some of those could include the following

• Increase the power of dungeon-loot in a way that scales up beyond 15. To keep this from impacting Raid encounters, consider creative solutions (outlined below)
• An Ilvl modifier that only applies to M+ (applied to dungeon gear dropped above M+15, that is ineffective in raid encounters)
• Dungeon Sets (though, may be tricky to implement with time to release)
  –
• To avoid massively quick gearing, apply Diminishing Returns to dungeon-drop loot chance for each run (also, potentially to each M+ level, if you want v high ilvl gear to be very difficult to attain). DR’s resetting weekly, essentially serving as “raid reset” but for the M+ community.

[Whiteknight-thunderlord (Whiteknight)]

@Lërne-zuljin

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

This is an MMO not an action RPG. Gear acquisition must be throttled in some manner.

In this case blizzard should say that the only end game content is Mythic Raiding.

End game should be whatever the player decides it to be. In the case of wow- could be raiding, pvp, battle pets, transmog, RP ect.

You’re so caught up in the EOD rewards being slightly lower you’re forgetting that weekly chest awards gear of higher item lvl few raid-only players get to see.

It still stands if you are a heroic only raider the best way to gear up is to also partake in a weekly +14… and that +15 if you want the mount

Blizzard is making gear changes that also slow the progression of raiders. The lack of bonus rolls and lower drop rates from bosses. Don’t come here acting like you’re the only one being persecuted.

What I foresee is the M+ changes really only effects the first few weeks of the season. Eventually it’ll be just like today where M+ runners depend on the weekly for upgrades which on on par with majority of mythic raiders.

Mythic raiding in SL is exactly like it is today. Only the last two bosses award higher gear which is a feat very few players accomplish. Fewer than those who do M+15.

You’re surviving today with this ilvl difference you’ll survive in SL.

[Moopocalypse-anathema]

@Jalen-emerald-dream

If yes then there’s going to yet again be the problem of PvPers being forced into PvE content if they want to compete.

Just like I HAD to PVP in order to get Conflict and Strife for my WW monk to COMPETE in PVE?
Passes tissue box

[Zhanli-wyrmrest-accord]

Not really in the long term, you’ll be in full dungeon gear within a few weeks. Your weekly cache progression will meanwhile have a lot less duds.

[Lërne-zuljin]

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

End game should be whatever the player decides it to be. In the case of wow- could be raiding, pvp, battle pets, transmog, RP ect.

The problem with this is that PVP and Mythic+ endgame are greatly affected by Mythic Raiding. You cannot be a high rated PVP player without raiding gear and you also cannot complete higher than +25 Mythic keys without Raiding gear. This is inconsistent with Mythic raiding because Mythic Raiders can complete their content with loot exclusively from the raid.

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

You’re so caught up in the EOD rewards being slightly lower you’re forgetting that weekly chest awards gear of higher item lvl few raid-only players get to see.

Why do you bring back the weekly chest in this topic. The weekly chest is not the issue. Players of each content type (PVP/Mythic raids/M+) get the same quality of loot from this. Mythic raiders just get additional quality loot for doing their regular content while PVP’ers and M+ dont.

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

Blizzard is making gear changes that also slow the progression of raiders. The lack of bonus rolls

What do you mean lol. Raiders got their bonus roll replaced with a guaranteed Weekly chest that you can pick and choose which item is best. I agree that there was a good feeling about coining a specific boss and getting your good item but this change will make your gearing more consistent as you will not have a week where you use both of your bonus rolls to get Artifact power (no loot). (I Agree that this can both be a good or bad thing but this is not Raiders losing something, this is changing the way to receive your bonus loot)

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

lower drop rates from bosses

Loot quantity was also lowered for Mythic plus. i dont understand your argument.

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

Mythic raiding in SL is exactly like it is today. Only the last two bosses award higher gear which is a feat very few players accomplish. Fewer than those who do M+15.

The current loot system (BFA) is not good. You are forced to raid if you want to play PVP or M+ Competitively

[Fatherfeely-azuresong]

Who cares, raiding has higher ilvl gear.

[Lërne-zuljin]

Wait, i found this gem

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

@Brochetar-area-52

It’s a personal opinion. I do not like raiding period. I much prefer Mythic+. Mythic raiding is my least favourite form of content. The restrictions on it make it just dreadful. If they didn’t make it so the gear from raid was required to do well in M+, I’d be much happier pretending it didn’t exist in any form or stretch of the imagination. With how mythic raiding is currently, I would prefer Pet Battles be a bigger focus because that’s just how awful it is.

Upset raiding is required for M+ BiS gear? Join the club. Raiders and PvP’ers have been fighting that battle since day one. I don’t believe anyone should have to do content they don’t enjoy so then can compete.

I personally don’t like PvP. It’s a scene I just don’t care for. But that doesn’t mean I think it should go away. Let people have their fun.

Instead of asking for content to be removed you should instead be an advocate for gear progression for M+ and Raiding to change so the two can be properly independent.

[Whiteknight-thunderlord (Whiteknight)]

@Lërne-zuljin

Why do you bring back the weekly chest in this topic.

Because it’s about the big picture. You can’t keep tunnel visioning to EOD quality gear without considering how gearing as a whole has changed for everyone.

@Lërne-zuljin

The current loot system (BFA) is not good. You are forced to raid if you want to play PVP or M+ Competitively

What do you mean by competitively? What’s your end goal in all of this? Are you looking to finish a +20? simply push as far as you can? or do you hope to one day play in the MDI?

Nonody needs to get the gear of the other content. A raider doesn’t need M+ loot, PVP’ers don’t need raiding trinkets, nobody needs anything from the other progression paths unless they are actually trying to join in these esports.

and your end game is to actually be the very best then you’re just going to have to toughen up and partake in raiding/pvp.

@Lërne-zuljin

Wait, i found this gem

Ya I changed my mind. Like I changed my mind about covenants. I actually do think they can be a good thing for wow.

I don’t agree with this segregation anymore.

[Lërne-zuljin]

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

@Lërne-zuljin

Wait, i found this gem

Ya I changed my mind. Like I changed my mind about covenants. I actually do think they can be a good thing for wow.

Sure, next forum you can be on the side that PVP gear should be the best for the game . Good trolling tho

[Brochetar-area-52]

I stand by my sentiment. Remove mythic raid in favour of pet battles.

[Whiteknight-thunderlord (Whiteknight)]

@Lërne-zuljin

Sure, next forum you can be on the side that PVP gear should be the best for the game . Good trolling tho

No- not a troll. What I’ve done is grow as a character. If I’m presented a compelling argument then I will change my mind.

Do I think PvP should be the best? Not really. I think the vendor should give PvP specialized gearing. But you want to make sure you have the best stats than you should be ready to do dungeons/raids.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Lërne-zuljin

Raiders got their bonus roll replaced with a guaranteed Weekly chest that you can pick and choose which item is best.

If I’m a heroic raider, but I can get the first 2 mythic bosses down in a pug, I would have 2 shots at loot plus 2 more if I use bonus rolls. Without bonus rolls I only have the two drop chances from the kill and get no weekly choice from the mythic level.

It’s a flat nerf.

[Pandar-firetree]

MDI / E-sports aren’t the end goal of all things… Glad ranked PvP can exist just because they’re incredible players, that enjoy the content and invest in it. CE players aren’t all in the world first race. People can enjoy intense and challenging content and be compensated for it, without it needing to be so elitist about player interest preference.

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

your end game is to actually be the very best then you’re just going to have to toughen up and partake in raiding/pvp.

This is just griefing

@Pandar-firetree

Please consider alternative ideas in the weeks ahead. Some of those could include the following

• Increase the power of dungeon-loot in a way that scales up beyond 15. To keep this from impacting Raid encounters, consider creative solutions (outlined below)
• An Ilvl modifier that only applies to M+ (applied to dungeon gear dropped above M+15, that is ineffective in raid encounters)
• Dungeon Sets (though, may be tricky to implement with time to release)
  –
• To avoid massively quick gearing, apply Diminishing Returns to dungeon-drop loot chance for each run (also, potentially to each M+ level, if you want v high ilvl gear to be very difficult to attain). DR’s resetting weekly, essentially serving as “raid reset” but for the M+ community.

Please tell me know you would feel about a system outlined above? Pros and Cons if you’d prefer a full critique

@Whiteknight-thunderlord

No- not a troll. What I’ve done is grow as a character. If I’m presented a compelling argument then I will change my mind.

Also - wanted to outline that this is great! I appreciate your open minded-ness and willingness to remove the ego and about face on decisions you’ve been convinced aren’t needed anymore. Cheers mate

[Lërne-zuljin]

@Sarama-firetree

If I’m a heroic raider, but I can get the first 2 mythic bosses down in a pug, I would have 2 shots at loot plus 2 more if I use bonus rolls. Without bonus rolls I only have the two drop chances from the kill and get no weekly choice from the mythic level.

It’s a flat nerf.

In my post i said that i agreed that this could be a good or bad thing.

I think that your situation this is a well constructed concern that you should present to blizzard.

[Salana-lightbringer (Salana)]

Anyone who thought we were going to get monkey paw free design, should have seen the community outcry about destructible conduits which led to them giving it to us but then a week long cooldown in conduit switching.

This game’s design is nothing but unspoken caveats. So tired of it.

[Kettilbjorn-kilrogg (Kettilbjorn)]

So much ignorance and bad math in this thread. Argorwal, you’re the worst.

You act as if M+14 dungeons just automatically get done, but completing raid bosses requires some special magic.

The first 14 keys and the first mythic bosses get done around the same time (and often by the same people). So, both reward 226 in the vault, but one also gets 226 loot as an instant reward for completing the content. Moreover, the raid path has also already geared up with a full set of heroic bosses at a higher raid level than the M+ drops … which isn’t compensated for by one or two vault drops … because ffs, normal people aren’t clearing 10 M+ 14’s with a 200-205 ilvl, which is where you’ll be from just running M+ … because again you aren’t gonna get more than 1 drop per dungeon (which won’t always be a good piece either or one you need), and that drop won’t automatically be 210 because you won’t start of clearing 14’s.

And the key point is that minor differences in ilvl gate progress in content, so the smaller difference at the start gets amplified every week … and with loot being more scarce this is a larger disadvantage than it has ever been for progresds and gettign into groups.

Every change is absolutely brutal in their combined synergy on killing the game for non-guild raid style players.