I thought you were leaving? Im so glad your back but please dont jerk me around like this! My sad heart cant take it. Please, keep coming back for that connection!
My guild has cleared both Vashj and Kael, but there is still an overwhelming majority that feels certain elements, mainly the Vashj MC change, should be implemented. There is enough RNG on that fight with the spore bats, that an unlucky set of MC’s can ruin a phase 3 even after a perfect phase 1 and 2.
3 Likes
No nerfs.
Go play classic era if you wanna faceroll.
Hello Kaivax!
Thank you for the update 
I really believe most people were upset with not having a warning when the change was going into effect rather than the change itself. Transparency definitely goes a long way. With that being said, I do think the bosses or trash should be nerfed in SSC/TK. My reasoning behind the change is below;
1.) Yes, I understand the more vocal group on classic is the min/max, raiders looking to improve parses/speed every week. (I myself likely fall into this category) These same raiders are willing to spend 1,000s of gold in consumables in a single raid night if it meant performing that much better and clearing that much faster. Why does this relate to being pro-nerf? I believe not nerfing the content leads to your more casual guilds/player base dying off faster. Yes, people want the achievement of clearing the content, but a lot of smaller casual guilds are dying off because they can’t clear the content consistently. When these guilds die that thrive more on community/comradeship than clearing content you lose more people farming herbs, mining, crafting, etc which hurts the economy. (The top end players do not really burn out as fast as they haven’t gone 8-10 weeks without clearing both raids).
2.) Nerfing the raid does make it easier, but does not remove speed running goals, or parse goals for top performing guilds. Yes, clear times may get faster, but it also means guilds will be competing to get the fastest clear on the new nerfed difficulty of the raid.
3.) Nerfing the raid really will not impact top guilds. My guild has been full clearing 10/10 since week one in one night. If it gets nerfed or stays the same, the content really does not change for us. Either way we’ll clear 10/10 in one night. For the smaller guilds that are more casual the nerf could mean going 10/10 and actually keeping their guild afloat. Let’s be real, not many people are looking to join a guild that is less than 9/10 at this point into the phase…
In summary, I understand the concerns of the min/max and parse focused guilds. Yes, clearing difficult content makes it more fun, but for many guilds that have had this content on farm for multiple weeks, nerfing it will not change much. Either way, your guild will clear it 10/10 in a single night without really struggling. What the nerf does offer is a life raft for those struggling guilds, and the casual player base. Keeping the casual players around longer helps blizzard’s bottom line in subscription numbers, helps the hardcore raiders with lowering price of consumables/farmable mats, and helps servers in general with having people to pug raids, dungeons, and pvp with.
Nerfs are needed to help the casual guilds, but a warning/heads up of the inevitable change should be given in advance
7 Likes
Well said.
MC mechanics are not fun especially in the Vashj fight. Add the change that allows mc’d players to be cc’d at least.
Casual guilds don’t need help. They need to understand that they wont get to clear the content at the same pace as everyone else, and that’s the cost of being casual. Nerfing content will just give burnout in guilds like happened during the horrendously easy and boring T4, which is a bigger threat to the player base than a few casuals quitting cause they cant get instant gratification. So what if they are still progressing on Vashj/KT when BT releases. This isnt retail where you need to be on the cutting edge of every tier. They can progress in T5, eventually get it down then move on to T6 when they are ready, like it was in actual TBC. And by the end of the expac, yea maybe they wont be entering into Naxx25 in full Sunwell BIS, because they only managed to kill a few bosses in it by the end of TBC, but nor should they. This isnt a participation trophy expac, if you want that play retail. Progress as far as you can in TBC and be proud of yourself for giving it your all, even if you didnt kill every single boss. And guess what. Naxx25 is so damned easy, that sunwell gear isnt going to matter anyway.
3 Likes
Don’t nerf it, just release wrath 
2 Likes
Drop this bull. Nerfs NOW.
1 Like
In B4 Sarth 3D too hard, please nerf.
1 Like
hey, i need that mount for my collection! lol
I don’t think it’s realistic to say casual guilds are expecting instant gratification having waited to clear the content this long. I think the issue lies in the fact most decent players(Even if casual) Can get into a more hardcore guild. You don’t need to play 7 days a week to get into a top 10 guild on any server. You just need to perform really well on 1-2 classes 2-3 days a week. Most really sweaty guilds single night clear SSC/TK. My Boomy’s horde guild now clears SSC/TK/Gruul/Mag all in our standard raid time in one night.
Nerfing the content doesn’t hurt top end guilds. Either way the content is easy for them. All it does is make it more accessible for the casual players.
Hardcore players won’t quit over a nerf, they’ll play until Sunwell to relive old times, or experience the content for the first time at the top end of the games community. Keeping the casuals subbed and playing as long as possible helps us in the long run. More pugs for old content so you can get the DST you’ve been missing, more carries for GDKPs so you can make gold for just raiding, cheaper consumes, more people to boost on your mage alt, the list goes on… They help the economy of the game, and the server health in general.
Yes, you need fun/engaging content for your top end players, but you also need to maintain server health so those same players will continue to play the game
5 Likes
Yes, we really need an other week “don’t nerf please, meh parse…”
One think I liked with Classic was that I didn’t feel like I had to be jobless to be able to clear raids. Over the time, WoW was able to shed away from the No-Life tag it had for so long and for some reason, I didn’t feel like Classic had it. But now that you have listen to the no-life and want with the untested and unbalanced version of those bosses, there we go. ATM, on my realms, there are more guild 8/10 then 9/10 and 10/10 combine. But the whole server need to get gud I suppose. There was more then 2 versions of those fights, not only post-nerf and pre-nerf. There is a good reason 99% of the guide were wrong, they were made for the version most raider did them in TBC, which is not 2.0…
Im not talking about hardcore players. Im talking about the middle tier of players. The ones who may not be clearing SSC/TK in one night, yet have it all down. The ones who dont trash skip or speed run. Nerfing the content will not only cause it to become boring as it doesnt offer any challenge to those middle tier players who kill it weekly, but still have to put in effort, but it will also discourage them, devaluing their effort to kill pre-nerf (I wont feel this way, but I know many who will). The middle tier players, a larger number than the people who are BOTH still struggling on 8/10 AND want the nerfs (because a lot of 8/10s dont want the nerf, they want to keep trying, all over the forums), are the ones who will suffer from nerfs.
What is to stop blizzard from then nerfing BT even earlier, and Sunwell earlier still, all to save the casual who doesnt want to put in the effort?
Personally I dont pug Gruul/Mag, we manage to fit it in our 6 hours raiding weekly with SSC/TK. Nor do I do GDKPs. Mage boosting should be banned. Casuals by definition arent likely to spend much in the way of consumes, so thats a wash. The real thing to fix the economy would be to counteract the bots farming and locking down herbs which is what keeps the economy ruined. Even if they dont wanna fix the terrain/flyhacking of the herbing bots, they could at least add more terocone spawns likey the did with Brack Rotus and give terocone a proc chance on other herb picks, as well as add the marks of the illidari.
You cant interrupt casts of mindcontrolled targets…
I always thought it was crazy that “casual” players acted like Hardcore players were “sweaty no-lifes”, when casuals spend 5x as much time raiding.
1 Like
We don’t need anymore nerfs to this content.
It’s not about casuals using consumes, it’s about them farming the herbs/making the pots/sappers/grindstones that the hardcore guilds then buy and use.
Most middle of the pack guilds that are 8/10 or 9/10 have been struggling for consistent raid attendance as they aren’t 10/10. Yes, they may want the achievement of clearing the content pre-nerf, but if it was between being able to recruit as a 10/10 guild, or struggling for another 2-3 weeks and then disbanding while
hemorrhaging members the entire time, I think most semi-hardcore/casual guilds would prefer the nerf to keep their doors open.
I get what you’re saying that there are guilds that still clear it in 2 nights, and do still struggle to clear it, so it feels like an achievement once done with the raid week, but I find it hard to believe that someone really cares if just Vash/Kt are tuned down a bit. You’ll clear 10/10 in those guilds faster and faster every week anyways. The nerf doesn’t really impact guilds that are consistently 10/10 and have been for weeks. It impacts guilds struggling through the content currently.
It will only get worse for the casual/semi-hardcore guilds next phase if they are unable to get gear before T3 releases to be able to actually successfully clear current content.
1 Like
Generally speaking, most hardcore guilds don’t care if you’re on 24/7, but rather care if when you are raiding you pop full consumes, and bring every item you can to get ahead.
Usually leads to shorter raid days/times, but a bit more prep. But yeah, usually spend a lot less time during farm weeks clearing content lol
I couldnt agree more. Dont know why so many people are getting mad about the nerfs they want to do. If you are already clearing it then it shouldnt matter to you at all.
4 Likes