You know you can play the full game without BIS right? This obsession with “gotta have bis gotta minmax” is hillarious when coupled with “gotta nerf the encounters so I can”.
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Yeah, I do. but someone was trying to say there is “Plenty of gear” on other bosses, but if you actually look at the loot tables for some classes, all the gear that matters is on KT and Vashj 
Ah, the entitlement in the no nerf crowd. Calling people “pathetic” left and right. You guys are so toxic. You only care about your own epeen. Many guilds/raids disbanded because they hit a wall. This game is more than just to kill some bosses in a raid. It’s about the social interaction we have while playing it. Do you really think people would just move on and find new guild if their guild disbanded? No! People would straight quit the game because finding a fitting community is very hard nowadays. It is the friends we made along the way we should cherish, not some non-sense epeen. No one will remember your parse 15 years down the way. No one will care whether or not you are day 1 10/10.
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Why not just wait until Phase 3 before implementing these nerfs?
I thought the plan was, once the new phase is released the old phase is nerfed and i am ok with this compared to the original 2.4.3 nerfs
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“We don’t deserve high end epix and should have to work for them” is an example of “entitlement” now? I think the word means the opposite to what you think it does.
You’re whole argument is “I deserve end game loot and achievements even if I lack the time or skill to get them”. And you’re calling those who say “no you don’t” toxic and entitled … today must be opposite day.
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Because IIRC you have to clear the last bosses for several weeks to be able to attune everyone for the next phase? So if you wait until the next phase your still going to be potentially stuck for weeks trying to attune people.
It’s not like retail where you can just skip bosses and just go to the next teir.
Also I do believe the intention was not to leave them unnerfed forever, they were leaving them up unnerfed to appease the people who wanted the challenge but had every intention on making them post-nerf without too much delay.
The nerfed status after all was the way the game “Originally” had them. So. 
Vashj mace is basically identical to the hyjal mace next phase.
Vashj ring has spirit so any guild that cares about loot will be funnelling it to HPriest/RDruid. RSham replaces next phase with Blessed Bands.
Kael cloak again has spirit and is replaceable next phase by three different cloak options that drop in BT.
Sunhawk leggings off Kael are replaced next phase by at least three different options.
Verdant sphere healing neck is replaced by Mother Sharaz neck by every healer except RDruid.
Literally no one cares about “BiS” items that are only BiS for the current phase.
Yall got room for a 4th rogue ? asking for a friend
I don’t know the stats on how many players are returning after playing original TBC, but presumably there’s a sizeable chunk, and also presumably many/most have different life circumstances now and probably less available time to raid.
I guess ultimately it comes down to Blizzard’s philosophy on TBCC raiding and what kind of minimum weekly time investment they feel is necessary/expected, and whether a skilled but perhaps more time-poor player has a place in TBCC progression raiding.
If they value the so-called “dad guilds” and want them getting through the content while it is current, I think a more logical step would be to nerf trash substantially before choosing to nerf the actual boss fights. A trash nerf doesn’t hurt the 10/10 competitive guilds, but it does give those guilds with more limited time more attempts per week, without robbing them of the achievement of killing bosses under their own steam. I would absolutely prefer to skip trash and spend a night honing boss mechanics than to have an easier boss.
Back in the day I would play uninterrupted for 6 hours a night and all day on weekends if I wanted to. These days, with far less time to get in and get things done, heavy trash and long corpse runs really stand out as arbitrarily extending raids. I probably didn’t even notice back then, but now it’s just tedious. It’s lazy design. Endless trash is not engaging, it doesn’t feel like a good way to spend your limited time. I don’t mind wiping on progression fights, it’s part of the experience of raiding - but a 10-minute run back is not content, it’s just a waste of time that people could be engaged in and enjoying the real content. And it’s only going to get worse next tier - I do think it will lead to a lot of subs dropping and guilds dissolving.
And I know that people will just say “so git gud and don’t wipe durr” but I stand by my opinion that it is lazy design, it’s dated, and that Blizzard should weigh it up against the stickiness of their playerbase and decide whether it needs a tweak against 2021 player demographics. I hope it’s something that could be considered, though tbh I think it’s more likely to be held back as be a key selling point for TBCC season of mastery 
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Yeah, it’s the best gear you can get in this phase.
Wow, heaven forbid people want gear that is good for them during a time they are actively playing?
Also you still need to kill KT and Vashj to even get access to the next set of raids. maybe you forgot that part?
There’s not just one reason to just let the nerfs go through gear is a part of it, attunement is another, player retention, because plenty of older folks don’t feel the need to waste months banging their head against something that isn’t that relevant.
its’ a decade old content that’s been done to death before. There’s literally no reason go all gatekeeper on such old content.
You killed the boss in the first 2 months pre-nerf? Good for you? Hopefully you are filled with tones of pride and accomplishment over it, but it isn’t going to matter in the long run. No one will care.
You can want it but you are not entitled to be full BiS before the next phase starts.
In the time you’re spending on forums you could be checking your guilds logs to address the dead weight holding you back from killing this old content.
People will still be running BT and Hyjal in phase four. It isn’t going anywhere, why do you feel entitled to be given a free pass into it now?
That’ll become amazingly relevant when we even know the release date of the next raid tier, until then…
it’s hilarious you think I’m doing nothing to address my own personal issues while also discussing things on the forums.
Are you incapable of doing multiple things at once? Is that what makes you think people aren’t able to do so? 
I’m not an officer I can only manage myself in my guild.
Then again given your attitude I doubt you actually care. You just want to be snide and passive aggressive.
can people not have social interaction while playing the game without the final boss of the content being killed like hogger? Its the friends you made a long the way right, not some epeen epics right?
You would be stuck at 8/10 witiut the nerfs, though.
LOL yeah, it was completely abandoned the whole expansion…
Or fix server balance / dead servers merge servers??? oh wait… i remember… its a paid service.
1 Like
I’m all for nerfing the content. Less time i spend in raid the better, and I’d actually like to clear the content and have a chance at getting the most important loot off the last 2 bosses instead of waiting til next phase.
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Why do you even raid?
What value does the loot even hold and what “achievement” do the two final bosses represent if the devs had to intervene and weaken them for you?
Not even trying to insult (I’m not 10/10 myself yet), I just don’t get the point of the loot merrygoround of getting meaningless purple pixels for trivial activities that we clearly don’t even enjoy doing?
Hard bosses mean the loot and the achievement of getting them down actually means something.
I mean people act like we are forced to raid to get something we feel we must have and are entitled to. But we don’t have to have the loot, it serves no intrinsic purpose and we don’t need to raid. If you don’t like the challenge and don’t like raiding there are other options, do something else with your time or go outside or something. None of this is forced on us, it’s a game, if it’s not fun to you don’t play it. And we’re not entitled to anything from it other than access to the core game we pay for access rights to.
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Our guild based our schedule around killing all bosses for 2 teams pre-nerf on the release of P3 and so this advanced date really threw us for a loop when we have not had the appropriate time to take on the final bosses as we farmed for our upgrades.
It would be ideal to make an option to toggle pre-nerf or post-nerf versions much like heroic vs normal dungeons.
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