Raid Adjustments Discussion

TBC is still an old school MMORPG concept. I don’t think it’s condescending in any form when people say, “maybe the game isn’t for you”. Being efficient at trash can be learned just like boss fights. In fact, we make an extra effort to increase our efficiency on trash just as much as the boss fights. Does the trash suck? Yes. Is it probably the biggest contributing factor for 8/10 guilds? Yes. But suck it up and learn it. Stop talking about League or Netflix or whatever else in between pulls - wasting 5 minutes. Every minute counts.

That being said, people are making the assumption that everyone or even most people are quitting because of being stuck at 8/10. I don’t think that is the primary reason from my experience.

Edit: fwiw, We are still 8/10 and we used to raid 5 hours a week. We had ample to for progression, but felt like we needed that extra hour. Point being, even with 5 hours a week, we were able to get some good attempts in. That being said, our core 20 players or so are very, very good. We just needed to solidify the rest of the spots - even if they are lesser players. Consistency is king.

my favorite is when thaladred focuses on the lock tank for capernian. and then immediately re-focuses on the lock tank again shortly after

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This is how we did it as well. This isnt a content difficulty or too much trash issue. Its a lack of intelligent time management from guild leadership. Following this listed method, whether your focusing SSC or TK first, will get you the final bosses very quickly.

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Based on Warcraft Log SSC/TK Progress data, looking at the 8/10, 9/10 and 10/10 guilds, 60% of guilds are 10/10.

This says to me that Vashj/KT fights are not too hard as more people than not are able to kill them.

Therefore, no need for nerfs until p3 as the encounters are not too difficult.

Nerf at p3 to allow for catch up by other guilds.


Firstly, nobody cares about Progress. Yeah, its cool that they’re the best of the best, but top 1% is top 1% for a reason.

If raids were solo-able, i’m sure there’d be more full clears. The unfortunate part is, you put 25 people in a room together, theres a good chance that half of them are stupid and the other half aren’t smart, with a couple being an exception.

The best motivator in the world can’t make everyone better or want to be better. Some people are just the way the are and nothing can change that. Unfortunately a lot of them play wow and end up in guilds and in your raids.

Hello again! We’ve reached a decision.

We’re going to implement the previously-mentioned adjustments to Morogrim Tidewalker, Lady Vashj, and Kael’thas Sunstrider with weekly maintenance the week of December 14.

Thank you very much for your feedback and discussion. We really appreciate it.


So how come the trash nerfs weren’t considered so people could do the bosses as they were intended for classic? How can you appreciate the feedback and discussion and then completely ignore it.


Not soon enough.

Nerfs now!


So when is phase 3 is? Why even bother at that point it’s so far away… 10/10 btw, speed it along


Why even bother at that point, unless you’re pushing P3 back to like Feburary.

The whole point of early nerfs is to stop 8/10 guilds from dying. Dragging it out to December only helps the small amount of guilds somehow still progressing without dying.


after 2 weeks of looking into thousand feedbacks we just decide to ignore all feedbacks and go with the nerf by delaying it. lul.


Just as I expected, they only nerf it when the 1-month sub from SoM hype crowd goes away. Really nice and greedy business strats, Blizzard. You don’t give a single f about TBC players. You only want the numbers to look nice.


Booooo! This is very disappointing and sets a very sad precedent. Content is fun to beat because it is difficult.


Anyone struggling with trash had no chance with pre-nerf KT/Vashj.

Just be glad they’re nerfing it so you can get into Hyjal instead of going back into SSC/TK in Phase 3

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Why can’t nerfs come with the release of phase 3? I don’t understand why mimicking the rollout of nerfs on mag and gruul is a problem here?

Ruins the top end raiding and will leave the casual end progressing on the endgame content deprived of any satisfaction from killing un-nerfed content.

I was watching a streamer kill KT for the first time and he was so elated and hyped up to progress Vashj, if the nerf rollout was to happen as it was originally intended he and his guild would have been completely deprived of that joy. Might end up ruining that feeling on Vashj for their guild and many others.


I still want to say dual spec…cut the boss hp nerf it directly is the most simple way, actually you can give us some optimal diversity experience that fit today’s game system rather than stay in the past

Majority of the time in the raids is spent on trash. Not everyone knows about skips or how to execute them properly and that shouldn’t be a justifiable reason as to why people can’t access the bossess. Reducing trash lets people clear the bosses while theyre still hard when they otherwise would be unable because the trash is just so large. Hyjal and BT don’t have any bosses that are Vashj or KT difficulty, theyre all around the difficulty of Morogrim and even then I would propose nerfing the amounts of trash first before nerfing the encounters.


They tried to add the changes 2 weeks ago you tool, LMAO.


VashJ nerfs dont invalidate the fights difficulty, infact having people actively putting effort into CC during P3 increases the demanding nature of the encounter, it just means players who are not high calibre dont have to resort to creative use of game mechanics to counter the mindcontrols/sporebats.

Cash me ousside :rofl:

There are guilds out there who don’t have an issue with trash and are spending hours trying to kill Morogrim/Vashj/KT and can’t due to the difficulty of their mechanics.

The whole purpose of the nerfs is so that people can get attuned and into Hyjal week one of Phase 3 - that means killing Vashj/KT and moving on.