Nah, blizz has never limited account creations to server caps afaik. Either way, I prefer the options that maintain the integrity of the world over the ones that break it.
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Either way, the result is the same as option 1. Forest-trees my friend. ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
As wordy as you were, you are technically wrong. Your option one would result in server ques if more than the pop-limit tries to login at any given time. Where-as the one I presented, eliminates that possibility from ever happening.
Let’s not rule out the possibility so quickly. lol
I tried. I really did…
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No, but I saw a 4 hour 5000 person queue. What happens when the queue is 15,000?
Awww, you tried to convince your opponent that your position is the correct one, how selfless of you! It really doesn’t matter how much you try to be-little me, I’m still going to point out your logical fallacies and horrid logic.
With PIE!
Also without succeeding.
Just noticed this. Character creation won’t close. Once it opens we’ll have like that first 30 minutes of the last Stress Test where you can create your character, but the Enter World button is greyed out, for two weeks.
That is is only response… it is the Fallacy Fallacy… it would be funny if it were not so sad…
He has not offered a single logical reason as to why layering is bad
Nor has he provided a single reasonable solution to the problems that have been identified as the reason layering was put in the game
The only thing he has offered is some clearly outdated information about server hardware and data center operations. When people point out he is dreadfully wrong you know because they are experts (12 years of Naval IT experience here) he ignores or calls out a fallacy…
At least I am willing to ADMIT when I am wrong. Provided any evidence is submitted that I can review and consider… But that is not the case just a litany of
Fallacy Fallacy…
Without Layering and just had queues we would be in for a very big reality check. Classic is NOT funded how retail wow is and will not have the same server infrastructure retail currently runs. This is a passion project and as someone who works heavy in the world of Major IT I could see where the Blizz team is stuck.
Lets use Wrath as an example. ( I know we wont have 14million players but we also will not have the amount of servers they had either). There were times in BC/Wrath that there were 8-48 hour queues. Where people would go to the forums and complain they are paying monthly for a game they cannot play today.
If someone isnt taking the week of launch off that means they wake up work for minimum of 8 hours full time then get home and wait in queue for 8 hours minimum that leaves maybe 1-2 hours of playing.
This doesnt include the huge amounts of server crashing this would cause by players trying to reconnect continuously. That was a common thing in Vanilla through Wrath. Where if that happened I hope you pressed login fast bc your 8 hour timer just reset and now the server is slower and not allowing as many people.
This was all the norm back in the day. Today any game launching where first day has server issues can kill the game. Technology has allowed them to fix this issue until players are not all standing in the same area and the vacationing players who will leave after 3 weeks. People hate this because they dont understand the necessity of this. Would it be great if it wasnt needed but the game itself and the hardware its running on are not built for how many players are going to be logging in Day 1.
Unplayability as in sitting in a queue, or unplayability as in “too many people camping my quest mobs?” Just to be clear.
I don’t understand why pro-layering folks make this false dichotomy. Not having layering doesn’t mean having more realms. It just means no layering.
None, or very few. If the number of realms remains the same, the only thing layering changes is the queue sizes.
Once tourists leave and the initial populations decline, the queues go away and the realms maintain a healthy population.
Which is perfectly reasonable. Given that it’s launch day, queues will be expected. You could always… come back later.
It’s not like you’re only subbed for the launch day.
There are options available that do that without affecting gameplay at all.
That doesn’t make it a good thing. Not sure why anyone brings this up. We know layering will be there. That’s our complaint.
Maybe, maybe not. The wall of no said the same thing about Classic. Even if nothing changes as a result of our complaining, we will complain until it’s removed, because it’s a terrible feature that should never have been implemented.
And those who haven’t.
Why would they have the same quantity of realms as they’d otherwise have as layers?
Why not just 4 servers like with layering, only a cap of 3,000 instead of 3,000*[Layers]?
This is where you pro-layering folks always get your math wrong. You think taking away layering means dead realms because you’re equating not having layering with having more realms.
Then layering is pointless.
So the solution is just not to open realms to deal with the initial population, and instead wait for that to decline to its more natural state.
Instead of trying to minimize queues, they just let the queues happen. If after all the tourists are gone there’s still queues, they can add one server or two at a time, keeping in mind that too many will spread the realm thin.
Also keep in mind that not every realm needs to be at capacity at all times.
Personal anecdote, but it was the opposite for me and my friends. I have no doubt in my mind there are players who will see “Full” in the server population and choose one with “Low” instead.
No, they don’t. They can literally just do nothing. It’s okay that some realms have a lower population.
But why is that necessary?
Uh, no.
Unless by “48 hour queues” you mean the automatically calculated time that is almost never accurate said 48 hours, sure, in which case you could say WoD had 17k year long queues.
Maybe the game shouldn’t be designed around people who don’t have time to play it, then.
Less likely to be an issue given modern server infrastructure.
True, if the issue is “our game is a buggy pile of crap that we never beta tested properly,” or “literally NO ONE can play.”
“The game is full and some people have to wait in line” will not kill a game.
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You sure do care an awful lot. One thing I’ve learned in my old age, the less you care about things, the less you get upset by them.
Irregardless of layering or ques, I will still play.
Hell I’ve been subbed this whole time just for a chance at the beta.
It’s not all fire and brimstone bud. Layering or no, the game will be the same game.
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This is literally the worst possible scenario and I’m certain Blizzard would never chose to do this intentionally. It is a terrible business model to knowingly sell customers a good or service that you are planning on not providing. You might be willing to sit patiently in 8, 12, 16 hour queues, but the majority of people in that situation, unable to play the game they are paying a subscription for, would take to these forums with pitchforks and torches and burn the place down.
Some people would cancel subs and never come back, for others Bliz would have to go back to crediting game time (ie losing money). No sane person would truly think this is a tenable solution.
I’m very glad you are not runnng any games or web services that I like, because this is a terrible attitude.
Yes, because I’ve waited 13 years for Classic, and I don’t want a bunch of people who don’t actually care about or want vanilla to come along and ruin it for those of us who do.
If that were true, no one would have any problem with layering. The fact is that it does change the game rather significantly, and not for the better.
No, the worst possible scenario is changing the game and not actually giving us what we wanted: vanilla.
What are you talking about? Having it wait in a queue to play for the first couple days does not mean they are not actually providing the service you’re paying for.
Waiting in a queue doesn’t mean you aren’t receiving what you paid for.
No queue will be that long.
They are able to play the game they’re paying for. They’re just not willing to wait for it, apparently.
Anyone who would cancel their sub over queue times on the launch day was never that interested in Classic to begin with, and they won’t be missed.
You pay a monthly subscription, not daily. Just check in later if you’re really that opposed to waiting in line.
The terrible attitude is seeing a game that people love and thinking it needs to be changed because you don’t like it. Even worse is when the changes you’re making are actually changes made in the past that actually led to the game’s downfall.
If you don’t like vanilla, please don’t ruin it for those of who do.
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In vanilla blizzard had queues and dead realms. Granted not on the same server but it happened.
Also to further this in vanilla (when the pop was steadily rising) they still wound up with dead realms. To act like it won’t happen in Classic if they do nothing is ignorance.
Cool, but the pro-layering folks think the same realm will have both huge queues at launch and be “dead” once the tourists leave.
I’m under no illusions that there will be realms that are below max capacity. That is okay. Not every realm needs to have 3,000 players on at all times.
Then layering won’t really solve the problem.
If you had “dead” realms with a cap of 3,000, why would indirectly raising the cap to 12,000 with layering do anything to help prevent that?
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So…how long do you suppose the queue times will be?
Less than an hour?
More than 10 minutes seems unreasonable to me. I’ll wait hours on end if I have to but I just do t understand why in this day and age anyone should have to get in line.
…and what if someone gets DC’d? After waiting an hour to get to play,…do they go back to the end of the line again?
/sigh
I don’t wanna wait in line. ![:weary:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/weary.png?v=6" ":weary:")
Doesn’t Blizzard know who I think I am?!
Fallacy fallacy is true when the conclusion is relevant despite the fallacies, however that is not the case with your flawed logic. A red herring for example is besides the point and doesn’t deserve a response as well as a strawman, and ad hominems just get you kicked out of the forums. (not to mention it is extremely immature)