you literally just said “but I’ve heard” and “not the best source to use” - stop being a clown.
I reiterate, The whole topic for WOD, i cannot comment. Nothing i say for this expac really matters cuze i never experience it. All i can share is what i heard, so its not the best source–im not the best source for that.
But if you feel that it was such a great expac. Then explain what made its PVP gearing system so great so we can use it as a guide instead of creating sassy remarks.
– that is more helpful.
the notion that “wod was bad” was an opinion mostly formulated by PvE players because of the severe content droughts / lack of content throughout the expansion - EXAMPLE: 6.1, the path, only introduced QoL features, a selfie camera, and twitter integreation; obviously that is not going to entice PvE players who look forward to a new raid every major content update.
WoD and mop were the only expansions I had every single class (barring one, which was warrior in WoD) in bis pvp gear - it was effortless to gear each and every one of them, and I could gear them via PvP - I did not have to PvE to do so.
the only reason WoD was a better gearing system than mop was because in mop the pvp gear was only bis for instanced PvE - people in open world pvp that were wearing heroic SoO (siege of orgrimmar) gear had such a stat advantage (around 40-50% more primary stat and 300k more hp) that pvp specific stats (pvp power, trinket set bonus for 15% damage reduction) didnt matter, because they did 3x your damage, and their extra health compensated for not having the trinket set bonus.
WoD fixed all of that, making it so your casual, average pvper could get “bis” for pvp, regardless if it was open world pvp or instanced pvp - the gear ilvl started low (so PvE players couldnt complain about being compelled to pvp for their characters progression), but it shot up as soon as you engaged in pvp combat, giving you a gear ilvl that was within a 5-10ilvl range of mythic raiding gear, which is not a big enough advantage to cry about - if it were my way, I would have made it better, but I, and many other pvpers were content with such a gearing system.
the only real complaint pvp players had about gearing in wod was Accolade trinkets (they were stat sticks with primary / 1 side stat, so like int/mastery for example) and the reason they complained about it was because it was ONLY obtainable via ashran, which a fair amount of people didnt like.
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First, thank you for sharing all of this. This is honestly great.
Reading this is why i always emphasize for people to share their voice.
So my question is – why did we go from This to legion pvp templates?
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theres no real logical explanation to it - any of us could chalk it up to what we think it is, but in the end, it doesnt make sense.
I could say “well, its because people didnt like getting farmed in pvp as they gear up, so PvE players transitioning into pvp just end up dropping that facet of the game entirely” but that could be counter-argued that mythic raiding exists for them to acquire the gear they need which could be translated over into pvp content.
so then they came out with templates, which should have squashed the notion “pvp is inaccessible” because it was rather accessible (compared to expansions that werent wod/mop) yet they also ended up scrapping that one - the reason? I dont know, only thing that came to mind was that pvp had no more “progression”, but thats only a fraction of PvPers who truly care about that, which just further reinforces why wod was the best gearing expansion, because it still had progression, and was still fair.
now we’ve got this awful system where mythic15s are somehow equivalent to 2400 in ions eyes, so for your average pvper, the better option is to simply just gear out with mythic dungeons rather than try to push 2400. this is a BAD system, not only because it puts such a gear disadvantage on casuals who just want to “log on and play”, but because it forces content on people that they probably dont want to do.
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In the short run, yes.
It gets worse when you see the long run. More people gearing via pve leads to less people gearing via arena, which means less people will be playing arena, and facing the same people over and over gets tiresome after a while.
So eventually population will suffer big time.
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Not even sure how accurate that is, honestly.
Probably 95% of the players who complained about content droughts in WoD weren’t doing any of the content anyways. WoD didn’t have dailies because those same players complained about chores in MoP.
I think what’s more accurate is the playerbase’s expectations of the game had shifted as a result of a generational shift, and they wanted to continually progress their characters (aka see bigger numbers) without having to actually progress them via edit: endgame, challenging content
Which is why you saw Legion move towards AP grinding and Titanforging.
Agree so much on the BFA portion.
As a shadowpirest casual pvp player (who works M to F almost all day). I hate the fact that my Fantasy gaming experiencing is completely not there. This BFA way for us pvp players to gear up is a completely horid experience for me personally.
I want to PVP and if I PVE it was because I wanted to, not because I am forced to.
Honestly to me-- legion templates were not great.
I like the idea of having the ability to control my stats, just like in WOTLK.
WOTLK had so many customization and char control that helped me feel unique in pvp. As well that it helped me in fights vs other players. I always felt that my gear choice/customization choice was a huge factor with my victories. I only had to get a pve weapon (which I hated that I was forced to do that). But besides that, Bging was all I needed.
— To me is not just about gear progression. Its about Player control; having control over the decision of my own char – What i do with it, what stats i give it, what talents i select, etc. Control where my power is coming from and how. Also being able to be different from other players. I believe part of the pvp skill comes from properly specing your char as well. “the preplan before the fight” i just like to spend a lot of time on creating a good build for pvp.
TBH --going by what you said about WOD pvp gearing system. That sounds pretty good. Its interesting on why they did such a drastic change…
Just reading your feedback just shows how important it is for us to tackle this early before its too late.
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on one hand, blizzard is finally correcting some of the painful design choices they have made in the last expansion + this one, so the vendor gear could very well not be fully refined / implemented, and may turn out more than acceptable for your casual pvpers, as it is obvious BFAs gearing system for pvp is horrid, and even blizzard knows that.
and on the other hand, I see where the “complain early” mindset comes from, because blizzard normally doesnt change things in an alpha/beta phase before release, and I am tired of seeing bad design launch to live servers.
all I can say for sure is that I wont preorder, and if vendor gear is looking like a flop, I just wont buy.
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Yes it is 100 percent very possible that they might have a solution or close to one. They might even improve it further if we share our voice.
Back when I was rallying us shadow priest players for change – these changes could have already been preplanned. But I do feel strongly that our voice was the main Push for such a rework to fully come out. And it’s not over yet, it’s only the beginning. We have to remain consistent with feedback. Sadly, since i don’t have beta… I cannot participate as much now.
As about complaining early. That is true, its one reason. Also the lack of communication from them doesn’t help either. SP got notified like what, two days ago before the full release? It was completely last second…
And let this be known…
When the last alpha video came out where the head guy stated that they were not gonna make any major reworks for classes in beta, the SP forums was furious with #removevoid forum post/comments. So i do strongly believe our voice cause change.
We are all tired of seeing bad changes everywhere. for us here, we are tired of these poor decisions being made for pvp. That is why later this week or next week, I"ll do a similar rally post for The cause.
I only hope players will be encouraged to participate and respectfully share their voice.
And you’ll have some control over your stats, but again if you expected BiS stats from pvp gear you are going to be disappointed because you could never get bis.
Also bis is more a pve thing for dps and dps don’t be anything in pvp
Tbh I dont think pvp power even needs to be a stat. It could simply have corruption like text on a pc of gear that reads " While in pvp combat, increase versatility by 1% and the defensive benefit of versatility by 1%. This bonus is additive with other pvp gear" Its simple with no hidden expontential scaling that bli$$ can fook up. Even Dragonslayer Grammy Margaret can probably figure it out. If we need scalability, they could simply increase %s on tier levels.
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My only problem with what your saying is is how terribly balanced secondary stats are with different specs. Getting an upgrade with crit/mastery for me is usually not an upgrade. In alot of cases, its actually a survability or dps loss.
Except you are thinking in terms of corruption, pre corruption secondary stats wasn’t nearly that huge this xpac.
Even pre corruption, surv played infinitely better with haste more than any stat. To the point where 15 ilvl increases with no haste wouldn’t be an upgrade in a lot of cases. That’s just one example of poor stat balancing by blizz, I’m sure there are others.
Ok and I guarantee it’s not that big of an impact in pvp.
People hated WoD because you could do everything in the game from your garrison also they had some pruning going into WoD. Also, the huge content draught at the end of the expansion until legion came out similar to mop. On the PvP side to get gear was very good for pvp and it felt like you could get bis from pvp. Set bonuses helped that and the PvP ilvl was good as well! Gameplay it depends on who you ask, but I think when it comes to gearing wise pvpers generally liked it because realistically it was very similar to all the previous expansions
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Unfortunately you are wrong on this one. Secondary stat scaling has been so insane in all aspects of BFA, including pvp. As survival not having 25-30% haste in arena is crazy.
Want required the haste to be that high?
Edit: or is this like the arguement frost mages use to make about needing that minimum crit?
Well, they never promised anything about PvP stats, and they might be adding more gear.
They’re still making changes right now to things, which is shocking to me to be honest, because usually they barely change anything after the game gets into beta, but they’ve done full class reworks.
I think the video is a valid critique, and it’s good that it offers solutions instead of just whining. Hopefully there will be more to come, however, I also have to state I dont think they sky is falling. The PvP vendor is a way to gear without annoying RNG and that’s a plus for me personally, even if it wont give me every piece of gear I need.
Plus you can just play with non-ideal stats. This set will probably appeal more to casual PvPrs who just want to log in and do some bgs.