Ya it should fulfill its intended purpose
Sure if sov actually absorbed more I would agree
Ya if I were to nerf ret dmg this isn’t where I would start
Sure
But fury is a very good target this ssn
Hunters are a very good target for most comps that q ladder atm, even some jungles train cov and it seems more effective than training me
Disc is also an extremely good target to hit so I don’t think that point is valid at all
this is where we disagree then, i think it’s a good nerf in the absence of any other changes. i think its intended purpose is frustrating for a majority of the rest of the game
individual tuning doesn’t matter to the point that broad
it would shock me if most comps unanimously do like hunter as a target, but maybe i’m just wrong about that. fury with impending victory as well is a pretty bad target compared to a ret paladin ime, and it’s not a very rare talent pick in most of the games i’ve personally played this month.
neither of those examples would disrupt the point even despite those asterisks, though. if ret teams have good alternative targets, then the design problem of swapping being unrewarding isn’t present, and the reason sov is bad are just that it doesn’t work very well as a defensive compared to real walls. i don’t think anybody is disputing that, but it circles to the point earlier that apples to apples i think it’s bad to try and balance sov as a defensive using its damage, and the overall game experience is improved by this nerf whether or not anything is given in return
another parallel to me seems to be fast clone. the pace of most boomkin comps would take a hit with pretty much any nerf to fast clone, but that mechanic directly reduces the available counterplay in almost every game it appears. i don’t think nerfing that with no compensation would be bad
Ya game sucks ig
Does for me
Ya if ur a class that isn’t invalidated by craven existing it’s good to go hunter, they’re squishier than me. Turbo not going my hunter is actively trolling. For example at least.
I don’t see it a ton but I’ve found it easier to kill fury warriors with impending than like enhance for example
I don’t disagree
Sure but then at least increase the absorb
Disagree rlly
The only thing this change has done in my over all experience is reward bad rogue players more
Fast clone is a talent you can take, I am forced into sov.
You don’t really press sov offensively ever but you can use fast clone both offensively and defensively
Mom, dad. Plz stop fighting, I’m trying to eat crayons here.
It’s a healthy disagreement
i don’t think that necessarily applies to my point
fast clone is a piece of the strong package boomkin brings to the table in every comp any of us see it play rn. the fact that it’s technically optional doesn’t mean that nerfing it would fail to change boomkin rep, which goes to the comparison to another ability that constitutes a piece of the package ret brings to its own comps. that would only change if there’s a secret pvp talent that can actually supercede the power of fast clone, to prevent a nerf reducing the sum total of that package
that makes sense, i’m pretty sure i get to play the game in an open space that denies ghost wolf value more often than you
all love
I didn’t read all of these replies so I apologize if this was covered, but the shield of veng nerf bothers me just because:
Couldn’t they have at least put a little effort into nerfing Ret by fixing the bug that allows 2x hammers to sometimes proc? That seems like the bigger issue I have seen for the last 2 seasons.
If I can’t have a (respectful) disagreement with my friends they’re probably not people I want to be associating with anyway.
Yeah fair.
I mean I don’t think sov really “brings something” to the comp other than gimp a bad rogue player and show up on wow highlights. But to ur point ya I agree
Yeah I mean I used that as an example. Dh would be another one, for some wacky rsn dh is rlly hard to kill if it’s with a warrior but I can kill the warrior better. Might actually just be because my hunter is surv and not the cheating all physical dam pet one
I actually don’t use emblem anymore I don’t think it’s v good anymore
Personally I’ve noticed that fleshcraft and sov seem to have a stretching effect on aegis for ret that makes it really easy to get full aegis value. Takes forever to actually touch that healthbar with star surges
Interesting. I have really become reliant on the extra cushion it gives me on openers. I will need to try insignia and play better. 
I actually have not used this in a long time. I just felt like I’d rather have emblem if taking a defensive trinket as Ret. Maybe I should try this more as well.
Buff moonkin
Y’all killed me last time.
man i havent played aegis into boomy actually
prolly good i just use proc trinket into anything thats not dbl wiz
i actually dont notice much of a diff, u also just hammer way more dam with insig and the extra haste feels good
ya cause we went
“oh this guy is venthyr lmao w key him”
It’s just necro that’s busted. A DH without the RNG demon is pretty squishy lol.
ye ur class is way less frustrating when u dont rng heal for 25% of ur hp and get the same percent dam increase of wings for no reason
venthyr dh dam is extremely real tho but kind of a fun matchup, normally dhdk makes me rage
Ya we went, “Venth DH, an actual target!”
Lol we are 1-1 at least.
ya didnt realize the first game u were venthyr
That’s how my qs go. Win the first time and if we play the same team again usually lose cause they’ll start dispelling or targeting me lol.