With 2pc tier we’ll be doing the same damage anyway
When Mature adults also say that something is “good change” also say why, unlike you, not just “BeCaUsE I WaS StRuGgLiNg Vs Dk, NeRf aSaP”. Nobody was saying that dk didn’t need nerf, problem is what they are nerfing. While you can justify most of those nerfs, ds nerf is not justified. One of the best dk player, mes, said it when he reacted to it, so tell me now your reasonings of why this nerf is good. And i don’t want to hear some biased take. Changes that ruin your spec before season starts are not okay.
surprisingly you guys were the most balanced in prepatch and now at level 70 i feel like rets are in a good spot. they arent OP but also not underpowered. they are balanced. 
also this is why i might main ret in DF.
It is, but what makes them so dangerous is not their ability to tank. Sure, you can nerf the defense, but that will just end in being unfun to play the spec.
The defense nerf is just minimal so won’t have that much of an impact, but their bigger thread is their offense. They should start there.
Thats exactly why they should change the design of damage and heal absorption. DK doesn’t heal that much, only death strike heals and that was already tuned down by 33% in PvP.
When a rogue uses Evasion, do you think the attack that didn’t land will be counted as heal? If you blast into his Cloak of Shadows which makes him immune to magic damage, do you think it will be shown as heal? Or what about his feint wall with 33% uptime. When you hit into that, do you think the reduced damage will be shown as healing done?
What about a mage that just pre alter time a big setup? Do you think when they get healed from 20% back to 100% thanks to that spell, it would be shown as healing done?
Of course not! But for some reason, AMS, AMZ, RoS and even Will of the Necropolis, which is basically just a wall, are shown as healing because they made it absorption instead of reduction effects. So while both basically do the same, one is shown as healing and the other not! This must lead to confusion for most people who just stare on the scoreboard and judge on that!
Same for Necrotic wounds. The worst designed ms effect ever is shown as damage done. So while this spell basically often just absorbs the over heal, its shown as damage. No other MS effect does that, because they are counted as healing reduction not healing absorption, so for DK they generate a lot of fake damage so they look super evil and broken! Not to mention all the other negative aspects of this PvP talent which make it just a terrible design.
What do you think would happen, when the MS effects of fury, rogue (shiv 40%), or even feral (20% on everyone with bleeds up) would be counted as damage as soon as any healing is reduced?! 
The community would scream for nerfs as they finally would see its potential on the scoreboard! Even when those effects often would just reduce the overheals.
DK was tanky versus wizzards, but beside that this is his job, he lacks mobility and defense versus physical damage! He also isn’t healing that much, its just damage reduction like most other classes have, but do you see anywhere nerfs of that? Nope, because they aren’t shown on the scoreboard or in the damage meter.
Also the Abom Limb nerf is totally messed. The ability was barely a thread anymore as it deals as much damage it did in SL while people have 400% more health. But instead of buffing its damage, they nerfed the only positive aspect left of this spell.
But it’s not only DK, also the other nerfs are somewhat weird. Don’t get me wrong, the one shot of Ele was just a matter of time. But what are those Frost mage buffs? The glacial spike nerf is just meh, 50% looks much, but in total it’s just a 7,5% nerf on crits.
But therefor their sustained instant damage got massively buffed and their massive defense versus melees is instant now and the cd reduced by 25%. So they dropped in total 7,5% damage on their critical gs damage, to get massively buffed in defense and sustained. Why?
Or what are those Rdruid nerfs? If there is any healer to nerf in healing output, its Evoker! But all they have done there is nerfing mana. Sure, they were chilling on mana while all other healers were oom, but maybe let them heal less so they have to heal more often. That will result in the same and bring the class on par with other healers!
Beside Arms buffs, which were too much and the one shot potential of some classes (Ele/Arcane), all changes are questionable. They can’t be based on high rated arena experience from beta. Sounds more like they watched some streams of some biased persons and made the decision based on that. But that is not how serious balancing looks like!
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they thing it is over tuned because all we have are bgs atm not arenas, so dks have 5 players raising DS healing and will call it broken instead of just understanding that is the nature of the ability in that situation… unreal…
In what world do you think he is not biased? The healing was a huge issue so they nerfed the heal, yet you and your hero say that the heal didn’t need to be nerfed? Sounds like you need a new role model.
And there you have it again, people just don’t understand it:
That being said, the DS nerf was already active on beta, just not announced yet. But they still haven’t understood what they are doing. It was basically the only line of defense versus fury, feral, rogues, etc. And those classes have all permanent MS effects from 20% to 40%. So the already reduced healing due to MS is getting nerfed even further.
I mean, you must be really terrible in balancing if you think that will result in something good! There was a reason why most high rated arena players rated DKs on beta in A tier and not in S tier.
Have you even watched his streams? I have, and that’s why i know that he is not biased. I think that you are just totally clueless, you have never played dk and can’t comprehand to see a global picture.
I’ll give a simple advice, which is relevant both ig and irl. Don’t talk about things you know nothing of. It’s better to not say anything, then say something stupid and emberrass yourself, which you did multiple times based on your nonexistent game knowledge.
I repeat, nobody said that nerfs weren’t needed, its all about for how much it got nerfed.
Hur Dur dk heals a lot - me see nerf me like it, i don’t care if it kills class or not 
. Your class is next on a chopping block.
Death strike is at the exact correct amount at the moment. They made the same mistake right before 9.0(from 40% down to 25%), guessed what happned, dk went extinct. And then after 3 months, they realized it and silently changed back to 30% without even publishing a tuning note. Now they are doing this again, it is a joke. I think they need someone who actually has pvp experience to deign the pvp balance. You wouldn’t hire a PE teacher to teach your kid thermo dynamics right? Same analogy, hire someone who actually plays pvp who has a good understanding of each class mechanism to design this game. Other wise, it will be a mess.
2 Likes
I disagree, countless times i’ve had 5 (talented) stacks of wound up on a dk and he heals to full multiple times while his healer is in cc. I’ve never heard anyone defending this nonsense.
Heal to full with 25% ms and maybe dampening? Can only happen if you have zero damage. Death Strike is currently already nerfed by 25% (just checked it) in PvP. Means 8.6% each death strike without MS or dampening. Maximum of 30% (also nerfed down from 40% in PvP) for damage taken in the past 5 seconds.
With 25% MS running, it’s 6,45% of his hp bar baseline every global (1.5 seconds without haste, mostly around 1.3-1.4 seconds) with 3 death strikes max in a row. After that he needs a least 2 global to get another DS, so 3 globals per death strike.
But lets say you had 50k dps. Then the DS would do 50 * 5 * 0.3 = 75k which is currently 18.75% of their HP pool. Reduced by 25% due your ms, means its ~14%
If ~ 10% HPS in the first 4 seconds, followed by another ~3.333% HPS after isn’t even enough to keep the DK somewhat alive but also heals him back to full, your damage must have been negative! But that doesn’t suite with a 50k dps. Because then the dk would have 40k HPS in the first 4 seconds, followed by ~14k HPS after.
So please, STOP TROLLING my bias dude. Math doesn’t lie!
4 Likes
Why does blizzard HATE mage? We have been expecting changes to our talents/ buffs but instead we get CONSTANT nerfs. Is there a mage class lead? Is he/ she on vacation? Is he/she “working from home”? like wtf is going on?
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stopped reading here
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Death knight is the one that’s broken and not the class that can take 90% of your health in a stun chain? Really?
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I can’t argue with people who don’t do the 30-50k dps dk combo effectively. Like you seriously probably can’t play your class remotely well so you think dk is fine.
Im ok with oppressive dmg when there isn’t infinite healing. A combo of both is toxic.
oh of course. i love the fact everyone hates rogues. And 100% agree with nerfing sub burst. I think they should bring back finishers and it’ll be okay. what i hate is getting nerfed to an unplayable level because unskilled players want every ability nerfed because they don’t know how to play around DR’s and rotate defensives.
I think its usually a combination of high offense and bolstering defense/high survivability. This more so applies to demo because it just has stupid dmg right now with pets. Affliction actually has to actively be casting and during that process it can be shut down - so there’s a glaring weakness for it hence I don’t think there’s any need to address anything for it other than its healing with inevitable demise.
For demo it just has way too much going for it right now.
Death strike healing felt higher than what it is supposed to be for sure. Idk if 50% was a bit too much, but I think it sets a good ground to evaluate how it does as the meta unfolds. However the abom limb change felt long overdue just because it’s been considered as probably one of the most toxic abilities in the game since its inception. I’m glad they did that since DKs are the only melee class with the strongest ranged slow in the game without a CD (just a resource cost) that cannot be dispelled.
No question. Been main DK for a bit now and pretty disappointed in Blizz here.
Not even worth it to play as one after this imo
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The talents they nerfed in arcane aren’t really that useful. The only one that we may feel and be forced to change is abarr execute which was too strong when paired with harmony/surge.
Also, they just buffed frost lmao. Nerfing glacial spike while making snowdrift instant and buffing ice lance by 20%?
Imagine complaining about that.
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Got tanks on here saying that dps should have 0 self healing and hybrids should do 50% less. I assume they just want a game where tanks are the only playable specs.
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