why stop at limiting ilvl to unrated? the ilvl gap is clearly even MORE toxic in rated pvp due to gating the gear needed to compete behind a bunch of people already wearing it.
just do wod style gearing but make it so that ilvl scales UP in pve this time
It could be so easy to fix, yet they refuse to address it. LFR gives everyone a box in the vault, yet people who do not do rated get nothing. Why is that?
There are way more casuals playing then Rated or arena people. How hard would it be to put a level cap in the “Random Bracket” random bg’s and epic bg’s could be alot more fun and more people would engage in that game play if it were not so toxic. Cap the item level at 203 or something like that, then atleast peeps who are not geared to the teeth could atleast stand a chance and have something to work towards. Save your conquest and buy the 200 item level gear.
I just don’t understand why Blizz as big as it is refuses to address things that alot of people all seem to agree on.
I would like a system where you play pvp with a max ilvl, say 199. If I am doing skirms on my 165 alt, I get blown out the water by anything 200+.
Or a completely seperate pvp BG called “proving grounds,” designed to level up pvp gear on alts. You can change gear, but can’t if it puts you beyond the cap.
PvP and PvE just need to be two entirely separate aspects of the game already.
That’s not the only issue, but it’s one. PvP stats, scaled templates in PvP content, disabling PvE trinkets in PvP content (or vice versa, as if that’s ever been a real issue).
People wanted to farm gear consistently and predictably with the vendors back, but they managed to screw it up again. Like, how hard is it to go back to a time period when it worked the best and literally just copy that system?
I dont mind that gear matters which it should, its just the amount of time that it takes to catch up on an alt. They need a catchup mechanic for honor and make conquest gained from arena/random bgs x5 per win until your caught up.
The gap in pvp is too large. We need to have a much smaller gap between top geared players and new ones.
PVE never changes, the bosses dont get harder stronger through a season. There are clear paths for the player where they can gear up without facing a challenge that’s far outside their capability.
PvP the longer you wait to gear up, the harder the grind. Especially now days with the amount of players being boosted.
Players often use talking points discussing the fact that very few players are in the top gear. Conversely though, these are also the players accounting for the largest amount of playtime, especially in pvp.
This means that in pvp you often go up against players with 30% more health then you and higher resilience and secondaries. Full 2100 gear dominates anything 1600 and below.
Pressure game is a huge element in PvP and gear gap incredibly eases pressure for the player with the ilevel advantage while placing it on his opponent.
I can’t play skirmishes, battlegrounds, rated BGs, or arenas without fighting opponents outside my gear range.
The majority of players that have gear did it when things were more equal, this is where skill matters the most. The longer the season goes on the more gear matters to the detriment of PVP’s health.
We can’t get players to get involved in pvp if they are starting at 22k-28k health and fighting opponents twice as strong. Getting to 1400 doesn’t even close half the 36-40% health gap between new players and players in top end.
This will only get worse as the expansion goes on, gearing in wow is Exponential. If nothing changes PvP will mostly consist of players that play at the beginning of the season or have friends Carry them or those that pay for carries.
My friends that want to switch classes just gave up on pvp. Things need to change.
Gear matters so much that the catchup system doesn’t work. The catchup system in say draenor used to give you full and capable gearing to play against players.
Now it just gives you far inferior gear and doesn’t let you actually participate in pvp.
That’s the difference between PvE and PvP.
PvE- Questing->Dungeons->Heroic->Mythic->Raiding
PvP Questing->Battlegrounds->Immediately start fighting Mythic raiding ie a glad boosting a 20k health players and decimating you.
It’s not equal. The longer the season goes on the more difficult it is to catch up. Because the “bosses” your fighting to get your gear are mythic when you’re in questing greens.
It’s because of the MMR system and how it’s tied to progression. You need over 50% win rate to advance in PvP. In PvE you can lose as many times as you want. How can you win 50% of the time when what many players report fighting players FAR outside their gear scores over 30% of the time.
Skill should matter in PvP, I don’t mind gear mattering as well but we need to be reasonable. This is not.
what are you even talking about.
I’m having fun right now playing my 180 ilvl warlock while i grind out the gear.
playing bg’s on my feral alt was one of the most frustrating and un-fun experiences. There is nowhere in the game for a new player to start getting pvp gear without getting farmed.
When I was playing on my rogue and was on top of the gear curve I was having wwaaaaaayyy more fun.
Maybe use templates in unranked bg’s and only unranked bg’s.
This is really up to the person and can also depend on the class and the setting. For me and a lot of people I know, getting roadblocked at certain ratings not because of skill but because of opponents out gearing you with gear from 2-3 brackets higher is not what we’d consider fun.
Are you gearing in BG’s RBGs Arenas? Many players quickly hit roadblocks from 1400-1600 in Arenas.
It is frustrating to me when I switched from my Ret to my hunter. While I’ve been doing better in RBG’s, I want to play arenas. Many people I’ve added just quit playing on their alts because they are too frustrated to play them. They won’t play with me on their mains because they don’t want to fall out of their bracket either.
While I did have fun gearing up my hunter to 1600, past that it’s been a slog. I want 1800-2100 gear so I can just play competitively and worry about developing my skill level.
You may be having fun and I don’t want to take away from that. But I know plenty of players who are frustrated by the current gearing system. We should be able to make compromises.
I haven’t done RBGS on my lock yet, I just been doing random BGs/ToK Brawl, and 2s with my rdruid friend (aff/resto).
I mean it was tough getting over 1600 with low ilvl and 19% vers, some op players with boosters would literally 1 shot me. But for the most part I really don’t find it as bad as most people are claiming.
As the season goes on the amount of players boosting increases. As you get over 1600 as well the amount of players you encounter outside your gear bracket (and skill) increases.
I don’t mind losing to more skilled players, but you can’t learn anything fighting a player who out gears and outskills you. Because he won’t have to rely as much on his skills.
A geared Rogue will kill you on the second stun after you trinket. I played a match earlier where a rogue killed 2 players dealing 64k damage in under 2 seconds. They needed 40k hp to not get killed in the opener to stand a chance. His opener is going to be the same as a lower skilled rogue though. He simply does enough damage with gear that his opponents will die.
I can’t learn anything from a paladin who just casts wings and goes ham cause he doesn’t have to wait for the opportune moment.
I love playing PvP in games and learning the intricacies of each combat system. Gear doesn’t do that. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t feel good to gear up, I just don’t want it to be my sole focus.
A lot of fights I feel I don’t learn anything because the obvious answer was, “They had more health dealt more damage so you had to play defensively as they pushed you.”
Even in RBG’s often when we lose it’s that they were just pumping more damage and had more pressure cause they had a couple players at 39k-40k Health tearing into us.
Once you do start running into these players they become a road block. You need over a 50% win rate as I’ve stated to advance in PvP. It’s tough enough when many opponents are on the same skill level. But if they outgear you and just marginally outskill you, you stand no chance.
But I mean it doesn’t take that long to not be that far behind. This is I think the 9th 60 I been gearing, and I expect to have 215 ilvl in 1 week. Grind out 7150 conquest in 2 days, get to 1800, boost all the pieces to 220…
The pace that you can be pretty competitive isn’t a long one. Sure it felt bad when I was lower ilvl, and still feels bad at my current ilvl, and if I would be stuck at this IT would continue to feel so. But the amount of time is pretty short.
The gearing system does feel better then some other expansions. My personal favorite was WoD because it was easy to get into the action and play.
My question to you is who are you playing with though? It feels that many of my IRL friends don’t play classes that mesh with mine. So I turned to discords, in game, etc to to try to find players to gear up with. It’s just not working. And the fear of losing rating and dropping down makes players all the more hesitant.
It’s extremely frustrating to find players to play with and once you do, lose to a team that outgears you. Getting so close to being able to gear up then suddenly dropping spectacularly out of reach.
It’s frustrating to go backwards when you can far so far. From needing one win to progress to needing 400 matches. I’ve personally had season where I went from needing one win to 189 games to get back. Usually because some seasons I won’t have time to play, and might come into it in the middle or near the end.
Gearing was fun for me till that point.
This is why this can be frustrating for me, you can’t truly play PvP at the top level till you have your gear. And when I have limited time to play, gear is the real roadblock. Not skill.
I pretty much play with the same person lol.
We leveled Ret/Disc together first, then Hpal/Arms. We’ve dabbled in Surv/rdruid and AFf/rdruid.
We get bored and play many different things. We do a lot of 2s, and we’ll do 3s with people from our Btags.
It might feel differently for me because I have those people to do arenas with that I have fun, even if we get our faces smashed in at first trying to do 2s at 150 ilvl for conquest.
I do not have that and it’s a hard thing to find. This adds to the frustration of gearing up. I even have some friends that do PvP but they are not the right class to play with hunter and it just frustrates them, bad comp, plus no one being overgeared to help carry the other.
Many players are in the same situation as me.
I would link as some people on reddit have done some research showing how fighting more geared opponents also slows progress to a halt at higher ranks
I can’t link yet on the forums but you can place this after on imgur /xK3AgTo.png
Look at how impossible it is to win against higher gear levels and how often he’s encountering them.
Yea i agree with the post. The only reason gear locked behind rating worked in the past is because their was no M+ and only a few people could do the hardest content. They should prob go back to the cata-WoD gearing system if anything.
Simple fix would be to just have ilvl scaling that lowers the gear down depending on what form of pvp they are doing unrated or rated, and what cr/mmr they are playing at. Random bgs, gear lowers down to the max of 197. Then 0-1399 : 200, 1400-1599 : 207 and so on. But nobody likes winning with skill. Everybody wants to be able to ungabunga and one shot everything.
Overwatch, HotS, and Starcraft use skill as a metric to go up in rating. No gear sets in there. They should just have one set of pvp gear and let skill carry you up in rating. Git gud would actually mean something and make it easier to balance.
What’s happening in 9.1?
Totally agree. The solution is so painfully obvious. Cap it at ilvl 200. Basta.