Gear should stop giving stamina in pvp, at level 60 every player gets the same amount of hp.
People who earn a real money income doing carries love this. People who play for free because they sell carries love this.
In season 3 of wod the difference between conquest gear and honor gear was 10/710 or 1.4%.
they had a good workable system until legion. most of the time the game gave BiS arena/bg gear from playing enough games (even losing) to get your conquest. it used to be if there was any rating requirement at all that it was for shoulders and weapons. for most of the games life and when pvp was most loved all you had to do was lose until capped.
they’re even changing it to be super elitist gated in tbc classic now. which is a huge #changes
at this point if i were a pvp only or majority player i’d just unsub and tell them why. and then not come back until they realize what they’re doing is wrong, and change it.
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sad pvp noises
I have no problem getting into RBGs to get gear. My win rate is 50-50. I was just Ilvl 160 last week and Im now 205. Torghast lego for my bear so I can spin like a god. Monks are meta right now and it’s really really easy to get into a group. As for the weekly skirmishes. Blizzard should have hidden MMR and Ilvl considered for match making. Sucks being like 170 Ilvl grouped with 210+. I don’t like to be carried. group me with other 170 Ilvls. It’s a very easy fix. Blizzard is just lazy bro. They bring in money and that’s all they care about.
I don’t really understand the issue OP has. Everyone started off at noob item level at the start of season. Naturally people who have been playing will be higher geared. They’ll lose games and win games. New people who join mid season will of course have to compete with people who have been playing that 1 character all season long.
Unless I’m mistaken this seems like players want their alts that they put no investment into to be equally as strong as the people who have been playing arenas since season start and have accumulated gear.
PvP gearing right now is gunna be tough naturally. People who are doing all content, raiding, M+ and pvp are vastly going to be able to accumulate gear and easily out gear new entry players.
1 win 22 losses, eventually if you keep playing you’ll get the conquest you need and turn that into like 5 wins 15 losses and so on. People need to remember you are playing against other players not NPCs so expect people to actually try and increase their odds of winning which is getting more gear.
Fairly certain Ion’s comment on the 1% per ilvl was not meant towards pvp.
Ion would says “it’s skill issue, they got 226 gear because they are good at PVP”
Actually you can’t know if that people is good enought when this expansion came with one shot classes like rogue, rets, Mage, druid. And in the other side a Lot of classes that are pure garbage in pvp.
226 in low brackets are feeling like gankers killing the leveling people, Bad as f but with a tier S class and 226 gear.
For skirmishes, that really should be the case. If good players want to drop their ilvl for faster queues, then so be it.
Then let me explain it for you.
We currently have compounding issues that make the process of gearing difficult. The funny part is it’s actually like combining the worst of some of the previous seasons relative to the gearing process.
- First - In many seasons in the past, the conquest gear you earned was as good as you could get. That means once you grinded out that gear, it was as good as the best players gear. Higher rated players could earn gear faster, but even the average orc could eventually catch up over time. Now, the conquest gear you get is almost trash until you upgrade it… if you even can since it’s locked behind rating.
- Second - While I like the idea of having gear relative to your rating, right now the disparity in ilvl between the best and the worst gear is so large that the jump between brackets is far more difficult then it was in the past. Even for good players, the leap from 1800 to 2100 is large and gear creates a barrier. In wrath, the difference from 1800 to 2k was only one piece of gear, now it’s an entire set.
- Third - The starter gear now is basically trash in instanced PvP AND it takes literally weeks to earn if not longer. 100k+ honor for a terrible 197 set. You can sink 60+ hours into farming that gear and still get stomped, even in non-rated content.
- Fourth - While I have never liked how PvP specific gear worked (resil, pvp power, etc), without it, PvE gear in PvP ‘can’ be problematic. The reason I say ‘can’ is this is easily mitigated if earning gear from PvP is easier. But since getting gear in PvP is so hard right now, the value of PvE gear in PvP is huge.
- Fifth - As already noted above, the time it takes to get gear now is massive. It took me 60+ hours and more then 300+ games on my alt shaman to get a full set of conquest gear. For most people 60 hours is an absurd amount of time. In the past, you could farm out a full set of gear in a weekend AND it would be very good gear. Now it takes substantially longer and the gear isn’t even that great. Then to pour more salt on the wound, you have to put in another massive chunk of time just to upgrade it.
- Sixth - Lastly, while I don’t like scaling or templates and think they are overall unhealthy for PvP in an MMO setting, I would gladly take them over this garbage. Having gear mean something is great, but if you can’t even get the gear, then it’s pointless. I want to be competitive and have a reasonable opportunity to earn rating. Fortunately, I’m decent enough that I can do that over time, but for the majority of players this isn’t an option.
So point is, you take all that stuff and combine and you’re left with one of the most broken seasons to date for gearing. Even after you sink literal days of playtime, you still have to actually get rating to get the gear you need to be competitive. Problem is, as the season progresses, you become more and more behind.
No. Look, this is a video game, not a second job. We have already been down this path many times prior. Blizz should be learning from their mistakes, not adding to them. Gearing alts should take time, but like anything, it should be a reasonable amount of time. If you farmed out a full honor set and full conquest set and upgrade them, you’re looking at more then 100+ hours of play time.
This is a video game!
A number of my friends have once again quit because of the stupid amount of time it takes to gear even a single toon. They have lives. Families. Jobs. We all do. The game is substantially more fun when it’s accessible for everyone.
Consider this, when you make a new alt and want to hop into PvP, before you can even think of progressing, you have to spend 10-15 hours just doing your covenant campaign. Bare in mind you already spent maybe 10 hours leveling. Now, you need do Torgast as well so you can get your legendary. Well, that’s minimum 4 weeks before you get the 235 one. So we have already spent 25-30 hours and on a new toon and we are just scratching the surface.
In some of the previous expansions, like WoD, you could level in a day and get half set of gear done as well. In one weekend, you could actually gear an alt out, or even your main if you were returning and hop right into competitive play. That was fun.
Let’s make this game less of a job and more… a game again.
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Wasnt it always locked behind rating for certain pieces? If I remember certain elite pieces required X rating to purchase. Unless im remembering too far back.
Haha as a pver who started dabbling in pvp this season I thought it was the opposite, was able to get deterministic gear quickly vs rng in pve raiding, but indeed yes I agree the 197 starter gear is really really bad in comparison.
Thanks for the reply the explanation really helped me understand more. Since I only really play the Elemental Sham and not really dabble in alts. I can see how daunting that would be if you wanted to just have a new experience on a new toon just to realize the amount of hours your going to need to invest just to not even still be competitive and basically 60+ hours just to meet barebones. Really does suck
We have had a number of different systems.
- Templates - Every 10 ilvls you got 1% increase in power. No rating requirement.
- Some rating requirement - In wrath, each piece was locked behind a different bracket. The gear you got at 1600 though was as good as it got. At 1800 you would get your T1 weapon and at 2k you would get shoulders. 2200 you got your T2 weapon. So while there was some jumps between brackets, it was far more diminished then what we have now and you could supplement a few PvE pieces. Resil was important, but wasn’t necessary to have on every piece.
- Scaling - Disparity in ilvl was diminished as gear would ‘scale’ to be somewhat comparable.
Outside of that, in BFA, getting gear from M+ was seriously easy and it was comparable to the best PvP gear. Granted, PvP gearing in BFA was horrible as well since it was mostly RNG, but thankfully PvE was so easy, that gearing that route was possible.
Yea, it’s unfortunate (of fortunate if you pvp) that some specs/classes rely on Vers as a stat for PvE. Those players can hop into PvP with no issue and basically only have one set of gear. For others, it means farming out another set just for PvP.
I’m fine with alts taking as long as mains to gear I should add, but I think it should still be reasonable. Right now the time requirement to gear with the 12 tiers is just a nightmare if you start from scratch. I’m really not sure why they want to impose such a huge time sink these days.
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PVE gear dispartiy is bad too.
That is why scaling shenanigans exists. Bottom line huge jumps of ilevel is bad for the game on the heels of another level and item squish.
Carries are an issue now because 1800 gear gives better gear than heroic raids. But this is definitely compounded by the poorest pvp balance I’ve ever seen in my life, it’s actually worse than corruption. An average geared ret paladin or mage is hard enough for high rated pvp players to deal with rn, and it becomes literally impossible when they outgear you.
Overall it’s the absolute perfect state of things for boosters to take advantage of. I doubt they will ever make more money than this. It’s astonishing really, I couldn’t have made the pvp environment any worse if I tried to.
That’s the thing though, carries have always been a thing, but now players are noticing them far more then they have in the.
- As you mentioned, 1800 gear is better then heroic so their is incentive for PvE players to get carries.
- More people are noticing carries because the Glad title is account wide as is the most accessible it’s been in ages.
- The disparity in gear means a full 226+ player can stomp on 213 or lower players with almost ease. Especially the rogues and rets.
My personal opinion is the carries are mainly an issue for the last reason. Even now, I don’t think there as big an issue as people want to say they are, but compounded with everything else, it’s just another straw on the camel’s back to deal with.
That and the fact that some specs with gear are just annihilating under geared players. I have so many screenshots of dying in 2-3 seconds or less. Even when I know the damage is about to happen. Even when I preemptively use defensives… doesn’t matter.
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People who care about PvP will role which ever is meta in that patch. As for a carry run. Not everyone has millions of gold to get carried to 1800 lol. You’re looking at 5.5 millon gold from phoenix community. If someone going to sink $800, then let them, If you PvP’d you’d know that when you buy from the PvP vendor. Only 3-4 pieces of gear even have your best stats, So you still need to PvE to finish your sets lol. I think PvP is in a decent state. I think we just need more pieces of gear to match our stats we need.
A little more fuel for the fire.
Ludus Labs has been doing an awesome job of tracking the data around arena, and to no surprise, ratings are terrible now compared to even BFA.
https://luduslabs.org/static/articles/images/rating_dist_bfa_vs_sl.png
I think it’s also worth looking at the distribution of ratings across the entire ladder. Here is a nice bird’s eye view of the entire ladder. We do see some pooling on each of the various brackets. 1400, 1600, 1800, and 2100. While there are likely some carries to 2400, it’s gonna be pretty small.
Now if you start to correct for each of these by removing the ratings that exceed the range set by the bell curve, you still have a very small portion of players. To that, carries or not, lots of players simply stop at 1600 or 1800 because that is the only rating they intended to get in the first place. To that, players are somewhat ‘forced’ to stop because of the huge amount of honor required for upgrades.
So taking that all in to mind, it would make sense we would see some spiking around those brackets. But even if not and we say the majority are carries, well, 1800-1849 only accounts for 4.33% of the ladder. Even if HALF of those are carries which is still likely high, that’s likely less then 2.2%. Now there are obviously carries to any of the brackets, but we still see somewhat normal distributions of rating across the bell curve.
You sir have no idea what you’re talking about. To much honor to upgrade gear LOL. RBGs give a crap ton of honor. I have so much honor I don’t even know what to do with it. Ive been buying weapons just to vendor them. You’re clearly looking for a free ride but don’t have the gold.
185 games played in 3s with a 1270 rating.
71 wins.
38% win rating.
Please refrain from telling literally anyone they don’t know what they are talking about in respect to PvP when you clearly are still learning how to play your own class.
3 Likes
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players during Legion: "templates suck, omg get rid of them!
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players during BFA: “wtf is this PvP scaling? remove it! we want gear to matter”
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players during Shadowlands: “gear matters too much! bring back templates/scaling/etc!”
I imagine the devs are thinking “when are they gonna make up their minds?” 
I don’t remember any complaints about conquest gear from mop and wod. Just revert back to then EZ
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