PvP Needs Desperate Attention - massive ilvl disparity

Community General Discussion
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Looking at the upcoming patch notes and I just don’t think they really come close to addressing the core issues with PvP right now. Whether you’re casual or serious, the current state of PvP is easily the worst I have ever seen it. This is pretty surprising considering the nightmare that was corruption and how good the season started. SL looked like it was shaping up to be one of the best and now is anything but.

Right now, I’m trying to get some gear for this monk and I have been doing the weekly skirmish quest. At ilvl 192 I’m currently 1-22 for win/losses. 1 win with 22 losses. While my gear still needs lots of works, I have already put about 20 hours in between the covenant campaigns and bgs. To that, I’m a pretty experienced player, so I would think I could at least pull out a couple wins.

The vast majority of matches I’m dying in seconds. The majority of players are 38k+ hp. I simply have no chance.

The massive amount of time it takes to get gear right now is a huge barrier to entry for PvP. Issue is, even once you get that basic starter gear, you’re still woefully outmatched. Even trying to compare 213 to 220 or 226 gear, 213 gear is seriously behind and puts players at a large disadvantage. The unsettling part as many of us know, Ion actually feels that this is a skill issue. It’s not. It has nothing to do with skill and it’s a serious slap in the face to any decent player to say something so ridiculous.

First off, the majority of PvP content has the least geared players put up against the most geared constantly. Be it BGs, skirmishes, arena, etc., If you haven’t sunk 60-80+ hours of time to getting honor and conquest gear, you simply don’t stand a chance. Sadly though, even if you get that gear, it’s still substantially worse then the best gear the game can offer.

Looking over the patch notes, it’s like they actually think the carries are the worst thing and are actually nerfing PvP gear in PvE. This is a terrible decision and only marginalizes PvP and will kill participation. The carries are mostly an issue because of the ridiculous gap in power levels. Carries have always been a thing, but now, the 226 players doing the carries are just crushing low rated players. In the past, carries were kept somewhat in check because most of these matches are basically 1v2. So if you were decent enough, you still had a chance. Now? Doesn’t matter. You’re getting killed in seconds… or instantly.

Even more worrying, the gaps in ilvl are going to be even worse next patch considering the best honor gear will still be worse then the current conquest gear. Meaning, if you don’t play this season, you’re going to be even further back then now for next season if you start fresh.

While there are a host of other issues, like rets and boomis one shotting people and rogues 100-0 players in a stun, the gear issue is seriously killing the experience and the upcoming changes do nothing to address the problem. It’s sad such a huge aspect of this game for many players is getting such little and poor attention.

Looking at one of the previous threads, I think this quote sums it up.

This is only going to get worse.

@Blizz

  • Please reduce the number of tiers in PvP gear.
  • Please adjust the tiers to be more appropriate to the skill within each bracket.
  • Please fix the massive deflation that is preventing players from reaching ratings appropriate to their skill. 1800 should NOT be the top 3% of players in 2s or the top 10% of players in 3s.
  • Please reduce the cost of upgrading or purchasing gear.
39 Likes
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If gear is not an issue like Ion says, then everyone should load into bgs and arena in full pvp gear at the same ilvl. :clown_face::poop:

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This entire thing could be solved by capping the ilvl depending on the pvp bracket. So new players earning gear through random bgs, like they’ve always done, will top out at 200 ilvl. But a 226 player who queues for a random bg will also be capped at 200. For anyone gearing through random bgs, there will be light at the end of the tunnel. They will eventually be fully geared for their content.

The same applies in rated. A 226 player who tanks his rating will see his ilvl cap dropping as he enters new bracket ilvl ranges. Meanwhile, those whose skill has them in that bracket will eventually gear themselves in that bracket, which will make it easier to enter the next bracket.

The beauty of this is that Blizzard would not have to have any worries about pvp and pve gear interfering with each other. Pve gear that exceeds the pvp bracket would get capped. Pve gear below the max ilvl of the bracket would be unchanged. Pvp gear would be its uncapped ilvl in pve. The weekly chest would be useful for both sides. Everyone wins.

Except for Blizzard who loses money from boosts. So they will ignore all our feedback and the game experience of their base, the majority of whom do not want to do rated pvp. We just want to queue up for random bgs and have a good time without being one shot, which is what we were able to do for many years. Blizzard doesn’t care about us. We aren’t padding the correct columns.

18 Likes
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While I typically don’t like any manipulation like this, it would still be better then what we have. Farming gear at the start season was fine. The first few weeks of SL were pretty fun. The changes made to many specs and giving back so many abilities really made PvP more interesting again.

That didn’t last.

Personally, I would rather they just reduce the insane cost of honor gear so players can get into rated content quicker. That said, I would also like to see conquest gear cost lowered so it’s actually reasonable for players doing regular content to get a chance at conquest gear. To that, capping honor each week, regardless of the content should grant players a vault item. So if you run lots of regular bgs, you should still get basic conquest gear. So at the very least, over time, you’ll get some decent gear.

It’s amazing to think in WoD you could actually farm out a full set of PvP gear in a weekend. Now its weeks to months.

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The typical response to any variation of logic to this is, “BUH BUH BUH MUH QUEUE TIMEZ”

And I frankly don’t consider that to be a viable argument to overall fair PvP state. If the top 10% have to wait longer, they have to wait longer. 40k+ players smashing 22ks in BGs/arenas is not fun.

BGs should be gated by ilvl bracket, and disable gear swap once you’re in. Sub 200 equipped and Over 200 equipped. Instantly fixed.

45k / 28k 2v2 comps is a clear “WTS CARRY” comp, and is not fun. Gate player MMR to where you can’t intentionally tank down to 1400 then sell 200cr/win boost games in trade chat.

These solutions are not difficult. The only people who don’t want them are the ones who enjoy smashing 20k hp fresh 60’s with their full rival gear and imagining it’s competition.

Someone in the BG forum said something along the lines of, “People don’t want challenge. They want a guaranteed win with just enough difficulty to feel like they did something.” - and it’s so true.

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I would rather see they change how tanking is seen from the game’s side.

As in, if you lose consecutive matches, your rating will drop, but your hidden MMR won’t be affected as quickly. So if you lose 2-3 games, it would be no different then now. But if you lose 10+ matches in a row, your hidden MMR would start to slow. Right now, we have the opposite of that. Your hidden MMR moves substantially faster, up and down, if you win or lose a few games in a row. They try to ‘pull’ you in the direction that is best suited for your ability. Problem is, it should only happen while going up, NOT going down.

So with how it’s designed currently, tanking is relatively easy and fast.

Second way to help alleviate this issue would be to put MORE weight on the rating of the highest person in the group. Right now, it does a blended average between the two players. So if you get a 2200 player and a 1200 player, it will likely land you in the 1600-1700 range. Instead, the rating of the highest player should carry the largest portion of the MMR value. So instead of fighting a 1600-1700 team, you would land somewhere 2k+.

1 Like
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I think the old format of just honor and conquest gear is enough instead of having 7-8 tiers of conquest gear. :rofl:

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Alternatively, they could just make it where if you have an over 500 (rudimentary number) CR difference, the lower person can’t gain rating. shrug

Suddenly boosters have to play hundreds of more games to carry people and it’s not worth it versus just playing anymore…

None the less, boosters turbo-tanking CR down to 1500, selling 200cr/game wins 0cr->1500cr … then playing with a friend to go 1500->1700, and do a single game win from 1500->1600 in 2’s is ridiculous.

The gains are astronomical for the lower player, and they lose nothing from losing games at such a disparity.

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It sounds counterintuitive, but rbg’s are probably the best way to gear. I don’t think you start losing rating until 1400 so you can grind it out even if you lose a lot.

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The gear disparity is utterly ridiculous. Does anybody that PvPs, from random BG heroes to gladiators, actually like this tiered system with absolutely massive gulfs between players? Does anyone actually like the absurd hurdles you have to face if you start the season late or want to play an alt?

The worst part is they know exactly how to fix it. They have been given hundreds of posts suggesting either real WoD gearing or even just templates again, yet they have to monkey paw for whatever reason and make it even worse than it already was. I just don’t get it.

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The bean counters told them they make more money doing it this way. That’s the only explanation there is. There aren’t enough of us quitting to offset token sales for boosts.

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I agree and disagree.

Ion’s “1% per ilvl” isn’t bad in and of itself, but when you have a 40/50 ilvl difference between a geared player and a new 60, or even a 20-26 ilvl (say, 200 to 226) between a casual and a hardcore player, it becomes impossible for a casual to play.

That said, gear is part of an MMO, and I don’t want gear entirely gone, because gear is entirely central to MMO gameplay. But there shouldn’t be massive gaps like this in just the first patch. 10% at most, and honestly I think it should be capped at that for PvP.

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I actually canceled my sub because of it, waiting for said sub to run out now.

It makes me have zero interest in playing any of my alts, because I can’t just jump in and have a good time. Hell, I can’t even spend a week or two gearing and have a good time. I have to grind and grind and grind and grind, just to play random BGs.

That’s not fun. That’s a job.

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I don’t think Ion understood where the question was coming from in that interview. I think he thought Preach was asking about PVE gear disparity.

Like someone else said, if the tiers of gear are going to have such huge ilvl difference, then lets just have honor/conquest gear that scales up in PVP instead of unranked/combatant/challenger/rival/duelist tiers. Let’s pull the ripcord in this context because it isn’t working lol.

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Oh, it is for sure. Issue is, getting into groups or even making your own is tough if you are below 200 ilvl. I did a few games on another alt and it was mostly getting stomped by other 1400 teams. After 4-5 losses we did win one, but it’s still a lot of time for one win.

As far as gear overall, getting 2100 in rbgs is about as difficult as getting 1600-1700 in arena. That said, it’s a very boring path and still takes a long time.

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I’m a terrible pvper but I stuck with rbg’s until 1600. Granted I was a bit higher ilvl and I lied about my vers lol but 1400 shouldn’t be too bad. By the time that’s grinded out, you can start upgrading to 207. You’re right though, you’d probably need to make your own groups once you got passed the “yolo will take anyone” groups.

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It’s honestly an entirely flawed system.

Go get smashed in RBGs for loser points so you can buy gear to lose less! Then you can have fun!

It’s not a game, it’s a job

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If was talking about PvP, he is just sadly and seriously out of touch.

The difference of health and versatility is a huge stacking factor. So ilvls is like a 20-30% or more increase in power level. It’s like trying to survive those big hits. What goes from killing you in 2-3 seconds, might not kill you at all and you may not even need to use a CD against it. It’s like earlier I got hit for a 20k On The Hunt. That took 2/3rds of my health in a single hit. Now if I had 10k more health and 20% more vers, it would have only been 1/2 or less. What ended up killing would instead give me time to react following such a big hit.

Agree. It should matter, but it just needs to be fine tuned. It’s worked in the past. For whatever reason Blizz is super slow to make meaningful changes relative to gear. So what do they do? Lower the rating for season rewards. What a joke.

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Also

Get good

Because it’s a skill issue.

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If you start later in the season, it is. It took me about 60-70 hours of arena to get a full set of conquest gear on my shaman. That was 300+ games played over the course of a couple weeks. I wanted to burn through it to play games, but I actually got burnt out by the end and the gear isn’t even that great. Doing arena with randoms is a pain. I honestly feel sincerely bad for any player trying to push to 1600 or higher in arena if they don’t have previous experience. It’s terrible right now.