I said what I said. And that’s coming from the spooky UHDK. People just don’t die or they take 10m damage to die. Damage doesn’t feel impactful. You have to watch out for 700 buffs and debuffs. People can just apparently teleport around the map now. Go in and out of stealth whenever they want to.
Like. I can’t offer any solutions. I hate pve because it’s boring as sin and I get off on the adrenaline of pvp but dude it’s just to frustrating.
Dps cooldowns were generally a mistake. Game feels much better when its just the intuitive getting attacked = bad type thing is real so it can take a backseat to the micro that made this game fun.
Its not like wows hard but id probably agree with something like redundant or needlessly complex
this is odd to read because in matchups where everybody is playing with a full deck, this comes back to being the case. taking damage for free is always such a bad idea that everybody plays to deny the enemy as much contact as possible. the cooldowns reduce TTK by extreme margins, which does seem like an accessibility problem, but the actual question of “is this enemy player doing damage that i care about” is not actually “only when they have cds i care about”, it’s “yes, all of the time, if you’re tanking it you had better have a good reason”. it only seems like the former because making use of a whole team’s worth of defensive utility to act on the latter fully is a lot more difficult than it used to be scattering a warrior’s one charge before he spellbooked hamstring on you
being optimistic here, i am moved to ask what you mean when you say the adrenaline of pvp. if paying attention to what cds enemies are committing isn’t it, and neither is trying to predict and outplay moves enemies are making…what is pvp to you? could you get the same thrill out of comp stomp if blizzard lied to you that the robots were actual players?
Go play a FPS?
WoW is complicated, but that’s part of it’s selling point. Takes a lot of time to learn what every ability does and how it fits into a match 
To some yes, Venruki did a video about the game and its barrier to entry being too hard for new players. I agree w him, the game has to draw in more players or else it will die out.
Nobody can pick up WOW and try max level PvP tho
That’s the real issue. Low level PvP is bananas and max level PvP requires a significant time investment. Plus, there’s a sub and box fee. Most PvP games are far more accessible.
Yes, WoW has many spells and interactions in PvP that people need to learn, and that is hard enough for newer players. But— I really think a major problem is the amount of addons and weak auras that are needed to perform and track things in PvP.
If you don’t have sArena or Gladius you’re trolling. If you aren’t tracking x aura, or x CD, or x debuff you’re trolling. You practically require a diminishing returns addon. The average player needs to Google search all the best PvP talents, they have to look up what a “macro” is, how to use them, and how they interact with the game. Finding which macros are most important for their class and spec.
Addons and weak auras just tack on another layer of nonsense to an already complicated game. I would love to see Blizzard fully implement arena frames to the same level as sArena or Gladius. They already added their own arena frames (which suck), but at least it’s some effort. Would love to see them brought up to sArena level like I said. The more addon features in the base game the better.
Well product aint selling, its time to change the forumla.
By nerfing dks to the dirt. Great idea!
I love wow junkies who form opinions based on the class someone post as.
I dont even play dk nerf them to z tier for all i care.
Put your mind set into a new player, that plays all kinds of other games and tries wow for the first time.
Was different for many of you who 17+ years ago started and many did not even know how to play. And that was ok, many did not either, alot of clickers back then lol.
So everyone pwns the new guy, tells them they stink, and to quit wow etc… Some one helpful says ok get this list of 20 addons, some require hours of video tutorials and trying to understand the 500 flashy things on their screen lol. Thats time they are not playing the game, getting bored, and others games seem way more fun.
Maybe like the movies that develop a cult following thats kinda what is going on with wow, hardcore want the game to stay hard, give them MOAR buttons lol. I think wow will be around for a long time, but its only going to shrink in size lol.
Of course the game seems easy to someone who has memorized their keys and study every aspect over the game, investing more time than a full time job over a decade… Of COURSE it seems easy, get gud, L2 play etc… haha. It will not be long when people will be surprised to learn that many do not even know what wow is, like asking kids today about classic favorite nintento titles… like Battletoads, Masterblaster, Contra lol.
Anyone remember the days when there were Arcades? You put these shiny round metal things called quarters into them, and could play video games lol.
The future of wow as many of you age out, and it becomes a cult classic, LOTR online, Warhammer online, star wars galaxies, everquest, runescape… haha!
Asmongolds streamer and a few others are right, they base the game off of what a tiny elite few think who play wow like a full time job.
I wander why classic SOD is soo popular? Hmmm, because its easy, and fun??? lol… NAA no way haha!
Because it’s a few days old.
Because its easy, fun and everyone is at an early level rn so the playing field is pretty basic. Especially including the new abilities and roles for different classes.
New servers starting up are always fun because of so many players in the starting zone. It’s a great thing to experience yourself.
First month of DF felt like this for a lot of people too, easy to get in to, everyone was on an equal playing field and we all had a bunch of new and returning and/or additional tools to play around with.
It’s the new game effect.
I was probably too hasty with my generalization. I’m not suggesting stripping the classes and going back to TBC would strictly be a improvement. But there’s gotta be a happy medium between wrath and shadowlands. or DF, lol. I’ve gone back and played classic this past year, partially because irl friends but I’ve taken the opportunity to experience if it was nostalgia or not and there’s something I find preferable to the base game and it’s less evolved classes. Given, I am a rogue, so probably the least changed class in the game’s history. But I’m trying to stay open minded about what’s enjoyable about having smaller power boosts with wider toolkits.
I’m not going to pretend like there’s nuance to the 45 minute games of hopeless Warrior Druids who had to sit full duration polymorph and root rotations without a magic dispel while limited dps classes cowered behind pillars for thier life and call that a better game even though I love that stuff. It’s only fun when you have the tools available to create the gameplay where damage is more of a backseat to the awareness and what you can act upon in any given situation. And I think the modern tools suck in comparison to what’s been previously available.
This ends up being the issue, I think. And why wow’s suffered from an exodus of pvp players, and probably why this post was made. Noobs find it too hard and don’t feel like they have a full deck or are even playing the same game.
So, while I agree that once you’re above x level the micro and nuance of the simple game comes back, IMO the complexity has walled off and prevented people from getting to that enjoyable place. It didn’t prevent people in the past with bloat in MoP, for example, which had similar levels of modifiers and dps cds, so what’s the main difference? Is it mobility? The entire spellbook? The CD’s? The Stats? The Gear?
Maybe it’s irrelevant and both classic and retail are just full sweats and noobs have no chance whatsoever regardless of balancing or tuning because they’re a decade behind on game sense.
It’s all with a giant asterisk though. I actually prefer tbc arena due to the spell downranking and the submeta of mana management with trash debuffs, and damage being so true that with enough game knoweldge you can basically ignore your partners health as a healer until the last second. So please trust that i’m ignoring my heavy bias to the base game as I genuinely love wow and want retail to succeed without reverting to a game only I enjoy.
You’ve discovered why most people don’t play MMO PvP. It’s just not worth the investment to learn.
Tbh this game has way too much button bloat. We could literally do without half of the stuff we have. I’m used to it, but I can see how new players can get overwhelmed.
People will fight you on this and then complain that no one plays pvp and everything’s deflated. Yeah, the barrier to entry for wow is quite high and it’s way higher for competitive pvp.
Youre all cordially invited to come play mage or priest (or rogue) with me on faerlina horde wrath classic. Come enjoy less buttons…
Idc if youre under-geared we can work with that