He wasn’t misrepresenting any complaints about phase 2?
You joined a PvP server
You don’t like how PvP servers work
Not really a strawman is it? Doesn’t matter how loud everyone’s collective crying is, it doesn’t make them right.
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Are you suggesting this isn’t a misrepresentation?
Because if you are, I’m assuming you can provide some evidence that most people expected wPvP to be “an instant fair 1 v 1 fight”. If you can’t, and that wasn’t the expectation of most folks, then it’s a strawman.
Would you prefer if I drew you a picture?
The dude’s character name is Donaldtrump literally any reasonable logic doesn’t apply. I’d probably just give up on it.
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This topic and conversation fascinates me in the same way the valid vs optimal arguments did.
Two groups that will never see eye to eye. Will twist each others words to fit whatever opinion they have and offer anecdotal evidence that this is what it is.
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I think what people like yourself are failing to acknowledge is the massive increase in population caps in Classic. Basically the worst case scenarios in vanilla are now multiplied by ten in Classic. You can make snide little comments about “pvp on a pvp server” all day long, but there is a reason Blizzard made faction specific transfers and announced an early release for bg’s.
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Look, everybody gets that world pvp is almost exclusively unsolicited and everybody on pvp servers is happy to have signed up for it.
The obvious expectation with that though is that even though individual occurrences may be inconvenient or unfair, on a server wide level it balances out to a basically fair scenario. That there is just as much opportunity to gank as there is to be ganked.
When you say you’re on a 40/60 server, the above probably mostly holds true or is close enough so as to not feel completely demoralizing. At 40/60 there are still going to be times where depending on where you are in the world, the minority faction will be in the majority. Or if they aren’t the idea of putting together a raid to turn the tables is actually achievable assuming you’re slightly more coordinated than the other side.
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Yeah most of the whining I see about PvP are with regards to it being unfair, doesn’t seem too far from the truth.
That’s exactly what it is.
This is you, and others, presuming the motivation and source of issue, despite people telling you in no uncertain terms that this is woefully incorrect. It is the dismissive, “I know what this is really about”, BS that folks use all the time when dealing with kids they don’t like, or customers, or w/e.
For the sake of analogy: people are telling you that the food you serve is making them ill and in response you’re yelling at them that they just don’t like you, or your culture, etc.
Pretend I’m a really bad chef then selling you poisonous food and the food is PvP servers. Why did you buy it and why do you keep eating it if you hate it and it makes you sick?
It wasn’t a true “strawman” argument. You picked out one sentence in the entire post. That sentence was then proceeded with 2 other real life examples of complaints about pvp. No, most people didnt think wPvP would be 1 v1 true. But some did. You can continue that same stream of thought for the next two examples and continue to scale it up if you’d like. The whole point of the argument was to highlight the fact that PVP is Supposed to be annoying, difficult, tedious, etc…and anyone who thought they would be able to continue “life as normal” i.e. enjoying an uninterrupted run to an instance, or endlessly farm herbs while watching netflix were not paying attention. Its not Blizzard’s fault they werent informed about a pvp server and its not the community’s fault that person rolled pvp. The individual chose the PvP server knowing it could be difficult, knowing population imbalance is a possibility, and then when the possibility comes true and makes life difficult every one cries…
Because in this bad analogy, I had to spend quite a lot of money to arrive at location, as well as hours upon hours of development and preparation, and I’ve already been eating and enjoying the food for a month… then some idiots decide to smash up the place and prevent half the customers from doing anything, but if I wanna eat I can’t just take my things and go, I have leave all my things, money, belongings, everything, travel two states over, and start from scratch again.
All because the dumb owner said “lol u decided to be here idiot”
I think this is what a lot of people think PvP is supposed to be.
Then they come here and whine when it isn’t that.
You decided to eat at that restaurant. The warning was posted at the door that at any point in time some random person might come into the restaurant, punch you in the mouth, eat your food, wait for you to order again and do it 4 times more…You would be a fool to go to that restaurant without some buddies prepared to fight back. You can’t blame the restaurant owner if there are plenty of patrons who actually enjoy eating at that restaurant.
You are level 60 so I assume you’ve played this game for a few weeks at least now. Haven’t you made a few friends you can group with? Thats what the opposite faction has done…Stop traveling out in the world alone.
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Sir, this food is potentially poisonous
I want it anyway, I’m not scared!
Okay sir you’re the boss
CHEF THIS FOOD SUCKS WHAT DO YOU MEAN I’M NOW POISONED
But it’s what you asked for
NOOOOO THIS ISN’T HOW POISON WAS SUPPOSED TO BE
Then why didn’t you just order the food that isn’t potentially fatal
SHUT UP THATS A STRAWMAN
Missing from your idiotic extension of an already stupid analogy is the promise of supported access to not only the food, but the music and seating areas. But enough of this…
Simply put, Blizzard did not, and does not, create PvP servers to be unplayable by either faction. That is why they implemented cross-realm access, phasing, sharding, etc, etc. The situation plaguing several servers presently isn’t something Blizzard has ever historically wanted for the last 15yrs. If BGs being released don’t alleviate the problem, you’ll see more dramatic changes put into place.
Being a condescending prick doesn’t actually help your argument.
Yes. Congratulations. You not only exemplified the fallacy but you did so with stunning disregard to intelligence and wit. Well done.
Stop looking like me.
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I’m sorry sir but it seems as though you thought you did but you didn’t. We prepare the food here a bit differently from what you had at McPrivateServer’s.
Never played on a private server but you go right on batting zero… at least you’re consistent.
A vast majority of people who rolled on a pvp server for reasons other than following their friends had expectations that were realistic but still not matching what they got.
A vast majority of people did not expect that pvp server means fair fights all the time. What was expected was that if you see an enemy player fighting mobs or mining a node you can kill them. Likewise the expectation is that the opposite will happen.
We expect that you will occasionally run into groups moving around toward a dungeon or quest and they will often kill you if you are alone. Naturally this also comes with the expectation that this will happen more near dungeon entrances and high traffic areas. This however also comes with the belief that you will be able to do it to other people as well and that it will happen both ways reasonably evenly.
We also understand that there will be griefers who camp FPs or corpse camp for fun but expect that to be reasonably uncommon and while a pain, not a defining experience for pvp servers.
These are all realistic expectations. These are also what was mostly faced with in p1 and many people’s vanilla experiences. The fights are often unfair but not always hopeless and you can realistically expect to be on either side of the fight with a relatively even frequency.
Most of the time when people say they want things to be fair, it has nothing to do with fair fights, but rather that they are able to be on the side with the advantage at least somewhat close to half the time.
This was crushed by things that were outside the expectation of many. Massive servers sizes that most people hadn’t really seen before in a vanilla WoW setting and didn’t see in classic until close to p2 due to layers. Unregulated server transfers taking somewhat skewed realms and turning them into absolutely one sided affairs. The effect that these things have which snowballs into making players on the losing side more passive and removing them from the competition.
The biggest problem is that these things weren’t nearly as big of an issue until phase 2. Once p2 landed we had lots of people who had already sunk in tons of time only to suddenly have their past 2.5 months’ experiences and their previous expectations completely thrown out the window and they have no way out but to quit the character they have invested those months in.
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