So I'm taking to cruising the forums and finding all the blue posts I can, and linking them back to this thread. Anyone else is welcome to join in this crusade for justice as well.
I agree 100%.
Although if you brought up gear progression being important for the PvP system prior to this expansion you were downvoted to oblivion.
Blizzard even said over the years it was important and got crucified for it every time by comparing WoW to other PvP mobas and FPS that don't use a gearing system.
They finally caved in Legion and it turns out they were right all along. Who would have guessed? This entire thread is basically an apology note to Blizzard from the arena forums. Maybe Bliz should have stuck to their "you think you do but you don't" stance :).
Although if you brought up gear progression being important for the PvP system prior to this expansion you were downvoted to oblivion.
Blizzard even said over the years it was important and got crucified for it every time by comparing WoW to other PvP mobas and FPS that don't use a gearing system.
They finally caved in Legion and it turns out they were right all along. Who would have guessed? This entire thread is basically an apology note to Blizzard from the arena forums. Maybe Bliz should have stuck to their "you think you do but you don't" stance :).
12/14/2017 01:54 AMPosted by FoxSo I'm taking to cruising the forums and finding all the blue posts I can, and linking them back to this thread. Anyone else is welcome to join in this crusade for justice as well.
Mate you're not helping this thread any bit by doing so.
I get that you're frustrated and this thread deserves a response, but all you're gonna do is convince them to ignore this because the spamming just comes across as PvPers acting like children yet again.
12/14/2017 02:10 AMPosted by ArgorwalThey finally caved in Legion and it turns out they were right all along. Who would have guessed?
Most of us that somewhat understand the playerbase of this game, rather than live in an echo chamber.
I am a PvEer. I started playing this game with a friend, roughly at the same time. We have been both at this game since the first week of Vanila. He's a PvPer. In Legion, he slowly left the game. He's playing another game, more PvP focused and no longer logs in.
I can recall vividly that he adored to do some objective and be rewarded with a gear, and while I often showed him my PvE gear that I acquired, he did the same about his PvP gear.
It's like PvP became a completely different game, where "gear doesn't matter". I understand the reason behind, to better balance the specs, and I actually support it, but I am afraid it really left behind an important aspect of the rewarding system.
I can recall vividly that he adored to do some objective and be rewarded with a gear, and while I often showed him my PvE gear that I acquired, he did the same about his PvP gear.
It's like PvP became a completely different game, where "gear doesn't matter". I understand the reason behind, to better balance the specs, and I actually support it, but I am afraid it really left behind an important aspect of the rewarding system.
hello, casual pvp'er here.
was directed to this thread in a link in another thread. thanks to whoever did that!
I've am truly home in this thread. group hug.
agree with every post!
i even miss the world pvp that would break out as enemy factions attacked our pvp vendors. happened a lot in MoP and it was a blast.
was directed to this thread in a link in another thread. thanks to whoever did that!
I've am truly home in this thread. group hug.
agree with every post!
i even miss the world pvp that would break out as enemy factions attacked our pvp vendors. happened a lot in MoP and it was a blast.
Well he can either not try to spread this out to the masses and just stay quiet (which won’t help), or share it everywhere and actually have a chance of making some noise. I dont think you understand how protesting works12/14/2017 02:36 AMPosted by Tyranova12/14/2017 01:54 AMPosted by FoxSo I'm taking to cruising the forums and finding all the blue posts I can, and linking them back to this thread. Anyone else is welcome to join in this crusade for justice as well.
Mate you're not helping this thread any bit by doing so.
I get that you're frustrated and this thread deserves a response, but all you're gonna do is convince them to ignore this because the spamming just comes across as PvPers acting like children yet again.12/14/2017 02:10 AMPosted by ArgorwalThey finally caved in Legion and it turns out they were right all along. Who would have guessed?
Most of us that somewhat understand the playerbase of this game, rather than live in an echo chamber.
I don't even know when was the last time a Blue commented on the PvP forums. Either way we can still hope. Don't let this thread die please.12/14/2017 01:54 AMPosted by FoxSo I'm taking to cruising the forums and finding all the blue posts I can, and linking them back to this thread. Anyone else is welcome to join in this crusade for justice as well.
What is really baffling is I am looking at rewards at random skirmishes and bgs dropping 900 ilevel glad gear.
Why?
You could purchase 895 ilevel glad gear 2 seasons ago using EoB? A warforge proc would put it on par with the current season gear. So, some players would literally be sitting on PVP gear from more than a year ago and see no upgrades.
The current vendors offer 915 gladiator gear but the 915 gear is dwarfed by the gear dropping or acquired via PVE.
Why?
You could purchase 895 ilevel glad gear 2 seasons ago using EoB? A warforge proc would put it on par with the current season gear. So, some players would literally be sitting on PVP gear from more than a year ago and see no upgrades.
The current vendors offer 915 gladiator gear but the 915 gear is dwarfed by the gear dropping or acquired via PVE.
TBF, even when you had vendores you often had to PVE to be the best at PVP. Not as bad as the days of vanilla where raid gear was better than pvp gear by default, but even in wrath you had to PVE for good trinkets on some classes, and what character that could use it didn't want a val'anyr or shadowmourne? A double healer warrior comp in those days could ridic if all three have their legendaries and the warrior has a good ARP trinket and knows how to game sweeping strikes with bladestorm.
IDK if they still do arena realms where you can just buy the gear to play and everyone is pretty even, even if 85% roll human for the free trinket.
IDK if they still do arena realms where you can just buy the gear to play and everyone is pretty even, even if 85% roll human for the free trinket.
should bring back rating requirements to purchase certain pieces of PvP gear, but scale the PvP gear as high as raiding. or nearly.
Blizzard asks for constructive feedback it's given by top tier players and not a single blue has bothered to comment on it I get they like to use the even if we don't post in it we see it but that's not guaranteed when it comes to the arena forums they should really have more active devs here
...
The template can stay. The point is to make the gear you earn with all of your time spent in PvP somewhat valuable in pve content. There's enough ways to gear up in PvE now that you really don't have to worry about people feeling forced to PvP in order to gear a fresh toon any more. People don't pvp because it takes so much longer and is so much harder to get to the point where you get a high enough ilevel reward in comparison to the relative ease of obtaining a higher ilevel reward from puggable pve content.
I.e., it takes minimal effort to do a M+10, Argus world boss, Antorus normal, all of which reward 930+ loot, but you have to get up into rival/duelist range just to get that equivalent reward in a PvP setting. That in and of itself is a huge deterrent for all of those masses of casual PvErs who would otherwise probably participate in some arenas or RBGs. If they just shifted all of the different tiers of PvP rewards up 10-15 ilevels, the rewards would be closer to on-par and there'd at least be some kind of incentive for those players to try out lower level PvP.
What about the incentive for the players to have customization and itemization to progress in the game the way the choose to do? This is one of the reasons for the Low participation in PvP.
Yeah look at the PVE side:
Being able to use different combination of trinkets and legendaries. Different stacking of stats that are beneficial for certain talent builds or trinket/legendary combos.
And pruning makes this worse along with a lot of PVP honor talents being passives.
12/13/2017 05:29 PMPosted by Haugs12/13/2017 04:20 PMPosted by SurvalEveryone just unsub these devs are not going to put love into pvp until subs go down and their bosses yell at them for sucking at their jobs
You first
Already did unsub it just hasn't ran out yet
I upgraded my 925 shoulders from S2, last season in S5.
12/14/2017 10:38 AMPosted by SebaceoussI upgraded my 925 shoulders from S2, last season in S5.
What is worse is that with Argunite you can obtain PVP gear through relinquished tokens that warforges/titanforges higher than 925 ilevel.
And that involves zero PVP and all PVE.
Argunite farming is also faster/easier than EoB by a long shot. And Relinquished tokens also allow upgrades for trinkets and necklaces.
The EoB vendor is there only for transmog purposes primarily which is why it does not have any jewelry.
12/14/2017 02:10 AMPosted by ArgorwalI agree 100%.
Although if you brought up gear progression being important for the PvP system prior to this expansion you were downvoted to oblivion.
Blizzard even said over the years it was important and got crucified for it every time by comparing WoW to other PvP mobas and FPS that don't use a gearing system.
They finally caved in Legion and it turns out they were right all along. Who would have guessed? This entire thread is basically an apology note to Blizzard from the arena forums. Maybe Bliz should have stuck to their "you think you do but you don't" stance :).
Yes, I distincly remember I used to be very adamant against anyone saying gear shoulnd't mattter but being downvoted to oblivion when those still existed.
Many PvP players don't understand what makes an RPG like WoW attractive. They think it's all about the competitive scene, when in fact, the PvP players of WoW HAVE to be attracted to it from the overall WoW playerbase, and not from some ultra competitive playerbase that exists only in their minds(and maybe also at the very top of the ladder).
And the overall playerbase consists of players that enjoy the MMORPG experience. Not the fighting game experience, not the RTS experience, not the MOBA experience, not the drive to be an e-sport player, but the MMORPG experience.
1 Like
This just doesn't accomplish anything meaningful.
Increasing the item level in PvP on the weekly would only encourage PvErs to feel "forced" to PvP. This is doing exactly what Blizzard did to PvPers for the last 10 years. Since TBC, people have been "encouraged" to PvE for the best possible character performance. 4/4 rogues, legendaries in all expansions since MoP and even PvE trinkets till then.
Additionally, you admit it yourself, it's not even worth it since it's not sets or useful trinkets. Outside of tanks, I don't believe many classes want to get a "Increases your Versatility by 2600" trinket.
Increasing the item level on these pieces of gear will not be enough to incentivize since they aren't sets or useful stats.
As for the current item level of PvP gear, it's merely a stand still from last season to this season because there will be another season. Next season the gear will increase from 950 to 970, to match mythic raids.
It's not the item level's fault, it's Blizzard's poor management of inserting a new tier of PvP before PvE launched.
What that means: Last season, season 5, was the "New tier" of the pvp set. We got our new tier look-a-like set that matched Antorus. Because of this, the gear this season had to be on a "standstill" of last season. This is why you are seeing no upgrades.
Instead of Season 6 and Season 7(next season) being the same'ish itemlevel, it is Season 5 and Season 6 (current)
**This is important to consider** If you are not "upgrading your gear this season, what item level was Legion season 5 compared to PvE?" PvPers had a whole season before Antorus even came out.
PvPers will have Mythic quality gear next season (End of February) when more of WoW's population get to Mythic raiding.
Branching off to that, your post reflects a 2400+ player, in the grand scheme of WoW, most players are not 2400+. Top 35% is Challenger and I believe that's 1700.
The average LFR person is your average 1600-1700 rated player. Their comparison of PvE to PvP is probably more accurate then you think. (Also, as stated above, the "good" PvErs who may be successful in PvP will not do it for the gear because PvE is just better stats/sets/trinkets)
TL:DR:
This accomplishes nothing and doesn't solve what is wrong with gear and pvp rewards.
PvP Issues:
Stats on gear suck (PvE enters PvP easier then PvP to PvE)
No worth while trinkets
No sets
No worth while rewards for the average player
If you want to solve the "PvP to PvE" issue here is how you do it. Make the transmog set available for purchase every 100 rating starting at 1000, with elite sets unlocking at 2k
Make 1000-2000 reward PvE gear you'd find in Mythic dungeons. Same freaking gear. You have an RNG chance to get Great Shoulders of the Whale after every 3-5 arena wins. 1000 rating = mythic +0, 1500 = mythic +5, 1900 = mythic +9, 2000 rating = mythic +10, etc.
Your weekly reward has a chance to drop a trinket relative to the rating you were last week.
A 1200 rated player's weekly will drop a trinket that is equal to LFR while a 2400 player will get their mythic trinket.
**Sets are unique to raiding**
But again, the same freaking mythic+ gear.
Now PvP transfers to PvE flawlessly, while PvE item level is still good in PvP. (Sets being the main reason to go to raids for this expansion)
Increasing the item level in PvP on the weekly would only encourage PvErs to feel "forced" to PvP. This is doing exactly what Blizzard did to PvPers for the last 10 years. Since TBC, people have been "encouraged" to PvE for the best possible character performance. 4/4 rogues, legendaries in all expansions since MoP and even PvE trinkets till then.
Additionally, you admit it yourself, it's not even worth it since it's not sets or useful trinkets. Outside of tanks, I don't believe many classes want to get a "Increases your Versatility by 2600" trinket.
Increasing the item level on these pieces of gear will not be enough to incentivize since they aren't sets or useful stats.
As for the current item level of PvP gear, it's merely a stand still from last season to this season because there will be another season. Next season the gear will increase from 950 to 970, to match mythic raids.
It's not the item level's fault, it's Blizzard's poor management of inserting a new tier of PvP before PvE launched.
What that means: Last season, season 5, was the "New tier" of the pvp set. We got our new tier look-a-like set that matched Antorus. Because of this, the gear this season had to be on a "standstill" of last season. This is why you are seeing no upgrades.
Instead of Season 6 and Season 7(next season) being the same'ish itemlevel, it is Season 5 and Season 6 (current)
**This is important to consider** If you are not "upgrading your gear this season, what item level was Legion season 5 compared to PvE?" PvPers had a whole season before Antorus even came out.
PvPers will have Mythic quality gear next season (End of February) when more of WoW's population get to Mythic raiding.
Branching off to that, your post reflects a 2400+ player, in the grand scheme of WoW, most players are not 2400+. Top 35% is Challenger and I believe that's 1700.
The average LFR person is your average 1600-1700 rated player. Their comparison of PvE to PvP is probably more accurate then you think. (Also, as stated above, the "good" PvErs who may be successful in PvP will not do it for the gear because PvE is just better stats/sets/trinkets)
TL:DR:
This accomplishes nothing and doesn't solve what is wrong with gear and pvp rewards.
- PvErs shouldn't feel forced to PvP for optimization
PvPers shouldn't feel forced to PvP for optimization either (Current problem)
PvP Stats suck, and good PvErs know this, they will not PvP for a versatility trinket
Next season will be an upgrade of gear. Instead of Season 6-7 (current and next) being the same item level, it's season 5-6 (Last and current)
Only top raiders are doing Mythic raids atm, once Season 7 starts, the majority of WoW players will be stepping into mythics (Not everyone is going to be 2400+)
PvP Issues:
Stats on gear suck (PvE enters PvP easier then PvP to PvE)
No worth while trinkets
No sets
No worth while rewards for the average player
If you want to solve the "PvP to PvE" issue here is how you do it. Make the transmog set available for purchase every 100 rating starting at 1000, with elite sets unlocking at 2k
Make 1000-2000 reward PvE gear you'd find in Mythic dungeons. Same freaking gear. You have an RNG chance to get Great Shoulders of the Whale after every 3-5 arena wins. 1000 rating = mythic +0, 1500 = mythic +5, 1900 = mythic +9, 2000 rating = mythic +10, etc.
Your weekly reward has a chance to drop a trinket relative to the rating you were last week.
A 1200 rated player's weekly will drop a trinket that is equal to LFR while a 2400 player will get their mythic trinket.
**Sets are unique to raiding**
But again, the same freaking mythic+ gear.
Now PvP transfers to PvE flawlessly, while PvE item level is still good in PvP. (Sets being the main reason to go to raids for this expansion)
I just want to destroy alt and pvers in bg again with my resilience gear :(:(:( everyone was enjoying pvp back then why change it... why? If i do pvp to get gear i wanna feel like i'm a god versus other player who dont. I dont wanna get one shotted in world pvp by a mythic raider with 3 legendary. I mean people who voted for the unfun no gear in pvp mechanic are clearly the pvers. Now it's just useless to do BG, It's not even fun... Since pvp suck the game is dying just look at twitch lol.
TBH it's just part of life, if you do something for a long time you should be better than the one who just started. I remember starting pvp as a new player getting my !@# kick by some 1337 players back then it was my goal to be them, to get gear, get good and destroy people. Now all of this is gone. The fun is gone.
Oh, and everyone can do a mythic +15 but not everyone can be 2400 rating. Why the gear reward is better for a mythic+15?? We can compare this to real life by saying Fastfood worker's earn more than surgeons. Would it be ok?
TBH it's just part of life, if you do something for a long time you should be better than the one who just started. I remember starting pvp as a new player getting my !@# kick by some 1337 players back then it was my goal to be them, to get gear, get good and destroy people. Now all of this is gone. The fun is gone.
Oh, and everyone can do a mythic +15 but not everyone can be 2400 rating. Why the gear reward is better for a mythic+15?? We can compare this to real life by saying Fastfood worker's earn more than surgeons. Would it be ok?
They have a opportunity to fix alot of things and they should fix world pvp and bring some semblence og balance in duels which right away would bring all other pvp much more balanced
.