very sad times. you hear of other games thriving in the esports scene and blizzard only care about pleasing the 40 year old pvers lmao.
The issue I'm having is now PvE gear is both easier to obtain and higher item level then its PvP counterpart. Gearing has essentially become irrelevant in PvP and has really taken a back seat this expansion. As a result, its feel like participation is down more than ever.
Agreed and I would like to add Templates botching Customization and itemization on top of this. You don't see this in PvE and people are free to Min/Max and experiment at will and generally do fine to exceptional in their gameplay.
#MakePvPGearGreatAgain
That's the catch 22 situation to be honest. Like I said, I agree that removing the power from the gear does make it where people lose incentive to play... and I do agree that it lost the RPG feel when they got rid of that...12/11/2017 04:32 PMPosted by KlaivaskarrI understand the urge for the more PvP minded players to think that just having equal power period is the best situation for PvP, but with that, I am forced to disagree.
The real incentive for a RPG like WoW is growing your character, and then playing that beefed up character of yours in higher difficulties/against better or stronger enemies.
But at the same time... I think skill should be the determining factor of rated PvP, not gear... It's hard to say what the ideal solution is to be honest. With the current stat template method, they might as well remove all the gears effects in instanced PvP, because it already feels that way. I honestly don't know though, it does feel pretty empty without the gear element in PvP.
I mentioned the world pvp element because I fancy being able to pull out a big bad main character if someone f*cks with my alts. =P
Tyvm for this. Yes by far I want pvp gear i.e vendors back. There is no incentive to pvp at all as a casual. That weekly conquest cap for competitive gear was always such incentive. And more people playing means more people being found out “omg ur gud let’s push ratings” scenarios
pvp vendors back. I've actually had AP for my 3s bonus roll 10 weeks in a row or some !@#$. I've lost count at this point. RNG gearing sucks.
I agree with with most of the main points.
Completly hate current gearing/pvp templates and lack stat customization.
In fact there is just very little customization
Completly hate current gearing/pvp templates and lack stat customization.
In fact there is just very little customization
12/11/2017 06:45 PMPosted by FoxThat's the catch 22 situation to be honest. Like I said, I agree that removing the power from the gear does make it where people lose incentive to play... and I do agree that it lost the RPG feel when they got rid of that...
But at the same time... I think skill should be the determining factor of rated PvP, not gear... It's hard to say what the ideal solution is to be honest. With the current stat template method, they might as well remove all the gears effects in instanced PvP, because it already feels that way. I honestly don't know though, it does feel pretty empty without the gear element in PvP.
I mentioned the world pvp element because I fancy being able to pull out a big bad main character if someone f*cks with my alts. =P
There is no middle ground. Either gear matter or template in pvp.
We have experiment with "skill be the determining factor of rated PvP" this whole expansion. And guess what? It failed. I am one of the person who support template. And I admit I was wrong. I never felt like I am pvp in an MMO game.
2 years ago I supported templates. Now I supported gear in arena
12/11/2017 09:10 PMPosted by Arcanerino12/11/2017 06:45 PMPosted by FoxThat's the catch 22 situation to be honest. Like I said, I agree that removing the power from the gear does make it where people lose incentive to play... and I do agree that it lost the RPG feel when they got rid of that...
But at the same time... I think skill should be the determining factor of rated PvP, not gear... It's hard to say what the ideal solution is to be honest. With the current stat template method, they might as well remove all the gears effects in instanced PvP, because it already feels that way. I honestly don't know though, it does feel pretty empty without the gear element in PvP.
I mentioned the world pvp element because I fancy being able to pull out a big bad main character if someone f*cks with my alts. =P
There is no middle ground. Either gear matter or template in pvp.
We have experiment with "skill be the determining factor of rated PvP" this whole expansion. And guess what? It failed. I am one of the person who support template. And I admit I was wrong. I never felt like I am pvp in an MMO game.
2 years ago I supported templates. Now I supported gear in arena
I still support templates. RNG gearing is bad, I agree. But it was also bad to have to farm for gear before being on the level playing field. It actually ruined regular BGs because half your team would be in questing/boosted gear (even though Honor gear was easy to get) There is a happy medium they can get to which would allow for non RNG gearing and keeping templates, and I am sure they are finding that for BfA.
It's still hard to say for me to be honest. Having gear required definitely gave you more to do in game, and definitely felt more rewarding. I agree this is a no middle ground area as well, either has to be one or the other. I just think the stat template system might not feel *as* horrible if it weren't forcing the RNG gear system on us at the same time. The RNG system should have never been implemented, and they knew PvPers f*cking hated it ahead of time because we flipped the f*ck out over the Trashran / rbg weekly RNG loot... yet they implemented it anyways. That whole debacle is why i have very little hope of BfA actually improving things at all.12/11/2017 09:10 PMPosted by ArcanerinoThere is no middle ground. Either gear matter or template in pvp.
We have experiment with "skill be the determining factor of rated PvP" this whole expansion. And guess what? It failed. I am one of the person who support template. And I admit I was wrong. I never felt like I am pvp in an MMO game.
2 years ago I supported templates. Now I supported gear in arena
12/11/2017 01:35 PMPosted by RailroadsIf you want people to PVP more, give them REWARDS they will use in all settings,
Yes. Like beautiful mounts and armor sets.
Additionally, you could introduce more toys, QOL items (like Hearthstones, Flight Master whistles, Portable Transmog station, rep tokens, etc.), and even additional emotes, such as they have in other Blizzard PvP games.
Wouldn't it be cool if you could /brag and your Class Crest displayed above your head? Make it cost X amount of Marks of Honor and the visual gets bigger for every 100 rating you earn.
Adding stronger ilvl rewards to Rated PvP will just make an uninterested audience feel more inclined to PvP and they will resent it. The core of the issue with gear in PvP is that it currently matters in some form when it shouldn't.
The issue with PvP rewards is that they virtually do not exist because most players won't earn them all and they're repetitive (like same armor set for 3 seasons.) Right now we have a handful of unicorns, some underwhelming banners, a battlepet, some titles, glad mounts, vicious mounts, tabard, elite gear, and not all of that is even earned in Rated PvP. Some of them you earn once and they're available to all characters (i.e. Prestige/Vicious Mounts.)
Even recolors of older elite sets or glad/vicious mounts would be good incentives to PvP more.
That's the catch 22 situation to be honest. Like I said, I agree that removing the power from the gear does make it where people lose incentive to play... and I do agree that it lost the RPG feel when they got rid of that...12/11/2017 04:32 PMPosted by KlaivaskarrI understand the urge for the more PvP minded players to think that just having equal power period is the best situation for PvP, but with that, I am forced to disagree.
The real incentive for a RPG like WoW is growing your character, and then playing that beefed up character of yours in higher difficulties/against better or stronger enemies.
But at the same time... I think skill should be the determining factor of rated PvP, not gear... It's hard to say what the ideal solution is to be honest. With the current stat template method, they might as well remove all the gears effects in instanced PvP, because it already feels that way. I honestly don't know though, it does feel pretty empty without the gear element in PvP.
I mentioned the world pvp element because I fancy being able to pull out a big bad main character if someone f*cks with my alts. =P
I read this all the time but, in reality the skill is determined by the individual player albeit being gear or not and the Current iteration there is NO to limited choice to do so and not everyone wants to play identically or predictably.
12/11/2017 09:30 PMPosted by Jugajr12/11/2017 09:10 PMPosted by Arcanerino...
There is no middle ground. Either gear matter or template in pvp.
We have experiment with "skill be the determining factor of rated PvP" this whole expansion. And guess what? It failed. I am one of the person who support template. And I admit I was wrong. I never felt like I am pvp in an MMO game.
2 years ago I supported templates. Now I supported gear in arena
I still support templates. RNG gearing is bad, I agree. But it was also bad to have to farm for gear before being on the level playing field. It actually ruined regular BGs because half your team would be in questing/boosted gear (even though Honor gear was easy to get) There is a happy medium they can get to which would allow for non RNG gearing and keeping templates, and I am sure they are finding that for BfA.
If you support teamplates, RNG gearing is meaningless. They might as well not make ANY piece matter at all, but then guess what?
The whole idea of RPG and progressing your character is lost. And as someone else already put it before me, WoW PvP is fun, but it doesn't stand on it's own to ignore the core attraction of the game.
12/11/2017 09:46 PMPosted by KlaivaskarrIf you support teamplates, RNG gearing is meaningless. They might as well not make ANY piece matter at all, but then guess what?
I would actually love for gear not being there at all. But, for people who do like to progress and see a higher ilvl, RNG gearing is terrible. They moved in the right direction with the echo vendor, if you're a casual player and do random BGs a lot.
Random bg's are more fun than arena
12/11/2017 10:35 PMPosted by AmyriRandom bg's are more fun than arena
Heck yea! Okay I'll leave the arena forums lol
bring back gems, enchants, reforging, honour and conquest scrap templates.
12/12/2017 12:25 AMPosted by Didyoukickmebring back gems, enchants, reforging, honour and conquest scrap templates.
Don't forget PVP set bonuses.
... That's the catch 22 situation to be honest. Like I said, I agree that removing the power from the gear does make it where people lose incentive to play... and I do agree that it lost the RPG feel when they got rid of that...
But at the same time... I think skill should be the determining factor of rated PvP, not gear... It's hard to say what the ideal solution is to be honest. With the current stat template method, they might as well remove all the gears effects in instanced PvP, because it already feels that way. I honestly don't know though, it does feel pretty empty without the gear element in PvP.
I mentioned the world pvp element because I fancy being able to pull out a big bad main character if someone f*cks with my alts. =P
I read this all the time but, in reality the skill is determined by the individual player albeit being gear or not and the Current iteration there is NO to limited choice to do so and not everyone wants to play identically or predictably.
The template can stay. The point is to make the gear you earn with all of your time spent in PvP somewhat valuable in pve content. There's enough ways to gear up in PvE now that you really don't have to worry about people feeling forced to PvP in order to gear a fresh toon any more. People don't pvp because it takes so much longer and is so much harder to get to the point where you get a high enough ilevel reward in comparison to the relative ease of obtaining a higher ilevel reward from puggable pve content.
I.e., it takes minimal effort to do a M+10, Argus world boss, Antorus normal, all of which reward 930+ loot, but you have to get up into rival/duelist range just to get that equivalent reward in a PvP setting. That in and of itself is a huge deterrent for all of those masses of casual PvErs who would otherwise probably participate in some arenas or RBGs. If they just shifted all of the different tiers of PvP rewards up 10-15 ilevels, the rewards would be closer to on-par and there'd at least be some kind of incentive for those players to try out lower level PvP.
12/12/2017 07:17 AMPosted by Espressa12/12/2017 12:25 AMPosted by Didyoukickmebring back gems, enchants, reforging, honour and conquest scrap templates.
Don't forget PVP set bonuses.
Those are not gonna happen.
They won't exist even in PvE come next expac.
Fix gearing method through PVP first.
Then other problems can be addressed. Legion PVP design introduced so many problems that you have to choose the easiest thing to fix first. First is to fix the gearing reward system through PVP.
Then other problems can be addressed. Legion PVP design introduced so many problems that you have to choose the easiest thing to fix first. First is to fix the gearing reward system through PVP.