its true, they should really look into this
also solo queue arena would be nice
12/11/2017 09:13 AMPosted by Venruki12/11/2017 07:46 AMPosted by BertimusIt's kind of crazy that you have to be in Rival/Duelist range to get a once per week PvP drop on par with a normal antorus drop. It's also absurd that regular drops (i.e. not weekly drop) in current rival range are lower ilevel than antorus lfr drops. No wonder participation is as low as it is.
I think it's more of a problem at the mid range, lower end rated players. There's basically NO intensive or reward for wanting to climb rating.
In the past you could find other people wanting their pants, shoulder, etc... and you could work towards that rating. Now it's become essentially meaningless, there's no common goal for PvPers to work towards.
I agree with this, right now there's no reason for me to push past 2k once every new elite set simply because there's no point or incentive too. PvP is no longer fun and it doesnt feel worth my time to push anymore
12/10/2017 04:51 PMPosted by VenrukiWoW is ultimately an MMO, part of that MMO experience is customization of your gear. Makes me so sad to see PvPers with no enchants or gems in their gear. I'd really like to see some level of customization brought back.
bless
agreed completely, please Blizzard take notice for BFA (i doubt any of these concerns will be addressed in Legion)
100% agree. I've been running pug Antorus to hear my monk for pvp. That's a bummer.
Power disparities should not exist in PvP. You shouldn't have to farm ilvl, Artifact power, or Honor talents. The only difference between two teams should be skill, not who farmed the most combat advantages. (That includes WPvP. I don't enjoy its present incarnation.)
We should either apply PvP templates to WPVP and completely negate the ilvl bonus, or bring back Dual-ilvl PvP gear.
PvP needs rewards, but those could be cosmetic. Like various recolors of Vicious War mounts or old armor sets. Make them available for Marks of Honor or Conquest and then give them discounts for having certain ratings.
I don't think PvP gear needs an ilvl boost. That'll just make unrated PvPers and PvErs inclined to participate in Rated PvP but not enjoy it. Rated PvP is unpopular for a variety of reasons, such as difficulty in finding strong or committed partners and narrow-minded ideas about spec viability. Blizzard should learn from Ashran's loot boxes and the MOP cloak questline BGs - it's not good to advertise content to an uninterested audience, it just makes them feel penalized for not participating in content they dislike.
TL:DR Completely remove gear's influence from PvP, introduce cosmetic rewards like mounts and mogs as incentives to participate and push rating.
We should either apply PvP templates to WPVP and completely negate the ilvl bonus, or bring back Dual-ilvl PvP gear.
PvP needs rewards, but those could be cosmetic. Like various recolors of Vicious War mounts or old armor sets. Make them available for Marks of Honor or Conquest and then give them discounts for having certain ratings.
I don't think PvP gear needs an ilvl boost. That'll just make unrated PvPers and PvErs inclined to participate in Rated PvP but not enjoy it. Rated PvP is unpopular for a variety of reasons, such as difficulty in finding strong or committed partners and narrow-minded ideas about spec viability. Blizzard should learn from Ashran's loot boxes and the MOP cloak questline BGs - it's not good to advertise content to an uninterested audience, it just makes them feel penalized for not participating in content they dislike.
TL:DR Completely remove gear's influence from PvP, introduce cosmetic rewards like mounts and mogs as incentives to participate and push rating.
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Honestly Blizzards doing a great job with baselining stats but bad job with the RNG for PvP gear/incentives. Games are evolving competitively, and Blizzards moving forward with the idea of PvP should never be about who has better stats or gear but any PvP related outlet should be equal and be based around "skill". But if you do raidâs or do mythic +âs it gives you a slight advantage, which definitely needs to be fixed. They should get rid of ilvl in PvP completely and worry more about incentives they should add like more titles and cosmetics to the PvP system.
And lfr/normal antorus is crazy easy to boot.
When the current PvP model was previewed, I distinctly remember many people (myself included) pointing out how participation would flop across all levels, specially the bottom.
The majority of the high rated arena PvP community continued to repeat the "The only difference between two players should be skill" and "Rewards should only be cosmetic".
Hell, a good portion of the echo chamber that post heres still believes templates were a sucess, that it's fine to walk around with ungemmed, unenchanted, unoptimized gear because of your amazing skills and that customization doesn't matter because everyone picks the "best" build anyway.
As expected, the insistence on making WoW PvP less of a RPG PvP, with gear progression and incremental upgrade to one's character, and making it into a poor's man Moba or FPS has completly alienated the majority of WoW's playerbase.
Currently, the only reward for participating if you aren't pushing titles is a recolor and a mount...on a game that is centered around Character Progression, more-so in Legion than ever, with Legendaries, AP and Crucible.
To touch on the issue of gear levels you mentioned - to be quite honest, it doesn't even really matter. PvP gear is poorly optimized anyway, even if it came at an equivalent ilvl, and it barely even helps in PvP itself. Even if ilvls were bumped up, the fact they have such a minor impact in your character when you are PvPing is a problem in it's own right.
The complete inability to gear up your character and make his playstyle more smooth with gear is the core of the issue. Many classes distinctly play different once they have reached certain gear thresholds - High haste for Shadow priests, Legendary Shoulders for Rogues, certain 4 and 2 set PvE pieces. All this is completly removed from PvP, with no proper (or even possible) replacement.
Honor talents/Legendaries and a drastic separation between PVE and PvP (Which helped neither; many basic class functionalities became legendaries or honor talents, and vice-versa - examples include the prunning of Sudden Death from arms becoming the Ayala's ring, and Smoke Bomb from Rogues becoming a PvP only talent) contributed in making the player feel alienated from his own character even more.
Paired with the gear issues, and half the time in PvP it feels you're playing someone's elses fresh 110 character.
The majority of the high rated arena PvP community continued to repeat the "The only difference between two players should be skill" and "Rewards should only be cosmetic".
Hell, a good portion of the echo chamber that post heres still believes templates were a sucess, that it's fine to walk around with ungemmed, unenchanted, unoptimized gear because of your amazing skills and that customization doesn't matter because everyone picks the "best" build anyway.
As expected, the insistence on making WoW PvP less of a RPG PvP, with gear progression and incremental upgrade to one's character, and making it into a poor's man Moba or FPS has completly alienated the majority of WoW's playerbase.
Currently, the only reward for participating if you aren't pushing titles is a recolor and a mount...on a game that is centered around Character Progression, more-so in Legion than ever, with Legendaries, AP and Crucible.
To touch on the issue of gear levels you mentioned - to be quite honest, it doesn't even really matter. PvP gear is poorly optimized anyway, even if it came at an equivalent ilvl, and it barely even helps in PvP itself. Even if ilvls were bumped up, the fact they have such a minor impact in your character when you are PvPing is a problem in it's own right.
The complete inability to gear up your character and make his playstyle more smooth with gear is the core of the issue. Many classes distinctly play different once they have reached certain gear thresholds - High haste for Shadow priests, Legendary Shoulders for Rogues, certain 4 and 2 set PvE pieces. All this is completly removed from PvP, with no proper (or even possible) replacement.
Honor talents/Legendaries and a drastic separation between PVE and PvP (Which helped neither; many basic class functionalities became legendaries or honor talents, and vice-versa - examples include the prunning of Sudden Death from arms becoming the Ayala's ring, and Smoke Bomb from Rogues becoming a PvP only talent) contributed in making the player feel alienated from his own character even more.
Paired with the gear issues, and half the time in PvP it feels you're playing someone's elses fresh 110 character.
I pvp & pve casually it would be nice if I didn't just laugh off the pvp gear as DE fodder.
Why does PVP gear always have versatility on it instead of usable stats for PVE if secondary stats don't matter in PVP, is someone in the PVE community upset that the PVP community can have gear worthy of dungeons/raiding.
If you want people to PVP more, give them REWARDS they will use in all settings,
TLDR: Move back into the token/currency system, so we can buy what we want.
Why does PVP gear always have versatility on it instead of usable stats for PVE if secondary stats don't matter in PVP, is someone in the PVE community upset that the PVP community can have gear worthy of dungeons/raiding.
If you want people to PVP more, give them REWARDS they will use in all settings,
TLDR: Move back into the token/currency system, so we can buy what we want.
Player progression and player customization is is extremely important and is a staple of MMOs.
PvP in WoW is fun, but it's not fun enough for it to stand on its own. You need incentives and you need to give players some control over their own characters.
PvP in WoW is fun, but it's not fun enough for it to stand on its own. You need incentives and you need to give players some control over their own characters.
Blizzard does not give a durn about players who mainly do pvp. Pvp players are sub human and deserve sub rewards
12/10/2017 11:02 AMPosted by VenrukiPeople should feel incentivized to play all aspects of WoW. Currently PvP gear has taken a massive back seat and as a result participation and interest feels lower than ever.
Am I alone in feeling this way?
Thank You!
duplicate post.
I half agree and half disagree. I do think taking the power out of gear did hurt participation quite a bit, but at the same time, I do think it needed to be done for rated PvP. That being said, they could still let it affect random bgs, skirms, and world, and give it a pretty substantial power boost, so you go around wrecking people still like you could back in the old days. I still think it'd hurt participation some, but not quite as much if you were a god in world PvP.... buuuuut lulz every server is going to be a pve server soon... If you think participation is low this expac, just wait until that goes live.12/11/2017 01:18 PMPosted by KlaivaskarrWhen the current PvP model was previewed, I distinctly remember many people (myself included) pointing out how participation would flop across all levels, specially the bottom.
The majority of the high rated arena PvP community continued to repeat the "The only difference between two players should be skill" and "Rewards should only be cosmetic".
Unless you're capable of getting gladiator or rank one in legion there's no other point in participating in player versus player. They killed their own PVP
Blizzard simply doesnât care about pvp or they would make appropriate changes. Youâll have to hope and wait till next expansion. Thatâs the only time that blizzard puts more than 2 seconds of thought about pvp players.
I half agree and half disagree. I do think taking the power out of gear did hurt participation quite a bit, but at the same time, I do think it needed to be done for rated PvP. That being said, they could still let it affect random bgs, skirms, and world, and give it a pretty substantial power boost, so you go around wrecking people still like you could back in the old days. I still think it'd hurt participation some, but not quite as much if you were a god in world PvP.... buuuuut lulz every server is going to be a pve server soon... If you think participation is low this expac, just wait until that goes live.12/11/2017 01:18 PMPosted by KlaivaskarrWhen the current PvP model was previewed, I distinctly remember many people (myself included) pointing out how participation would flop across all levels, specially the bottom.
The majority of the high rated arena PvP community continued to repeat the "The only difference between two players should be skill" and "Rewards should only be cosmetic".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I bolded, it seems that you think my gear model implies a significant gear disparity.
If that is what you believe, yes, I do think a gear disparity is fine - as long as it's the gear disparity of MoP and WoD. One that you can, if you get an alt/start out late, overcome.
The "competitive" part, thus, already end up matching people at the top that are all geared, so for them, there is no loss but the gain of being able to tailor their gear to their needs. The sense of progression from the bottom, from blue honor to conquest gear, remains intact and a way to streamline the PvP experience (instead of Honor talents, which gut your classes and unlock abilities that were base, useful even in PvE, and locks them behind crappy pseudo talents).
I understand the urge for the more PvP minded players to think that just having equal power period is the best situation for PvP, but with that, I am forced to disagree.
The real incentive for a RPG like WoW is growing your character, and then playing that beefed up character of yours in higher difficulties/against better or stronger enemies.
Having the top PvP require no gear makes the progression wheel collapse.
It's like if all Mythic Raiding were like MoP challenge modes.
Those might work for tournaments, invitationals and the like, but live-play cannot be based on that.
Live play is based on character progression.
Also, I don't think World PvP/PvE has, or will have, any impact in rated participation.
Rated participation lives and dies by it's reward system and acessibility.
I totally agree, it simply disincentivises people to participate in PvP which is no fun overall :(
It takes a considerable amount of time to achieve a high rating and there needs to be a fair reward for it. I feel the gear needs to be on par with high end PvE, even if it doesn't make a major difference in PvP itself it's nice to feel stronger when you go out and do world content along with being more competitive in general content overall.
Basically, it's really fun to get gear upgrades as you climb in rating, it's fun and it's rewarding and it attracts more players which brings more diversity.
It takes a considerable amount of time to achieve a high rating and there needs to be a fair reward for it. I feel the gear needs to be on par with high end PvE, even if it doesn't make a major difference in PvP itself it's nice to feel stronger when you go out and do world content along with being more competitive in general content overall.
Basically, it's really fun to get gear upgrades as you climb in rating, it's fun and it's rewarding and it attracts more players which brings more diversity.