I agree, the actual time you spend on Arenas vs the reward, is little to none, me and my friends have just been clearing Mythic + to get a GUARANTEED reward that will actually be helpful in world PVP (which is a joke and has been a joke for too long now) Mythic +, BGS, Arenas, and RBG (More ILVL) as well as on Raid. I even remember when a freaking cache i earned for beating a 2100 team that were really good earned me 10 freaking Stormrays.
Rewards this Expac were just Dreadful.
I was really hoping that when I logged on and 7.3.5 hit, the gear rewarded by my 2k in 2's would be a 955 reward... alas, it remains 940 gear... Thanks bliz.
The best thing to do would be to make ilvl irrelevant in Pvp, both instanced and world. Just reduce the ilvl DR to zero and introduce templates to WPvP. Or (next expansion) reintroduce dual-ilvl PvP gear.
Ultimately Blizzard should focus on introducing more cosmetic, monetary, and QoL rewards to reward people for PvPing. PvP should be about skill, not farming combat advantages.
If they buffed current ilvl rewards for PvP it'd just benefit a small portion of players already doing that content. Most people would still be content raiding and doing M+ for their gear.
Ultimately Blizzard should focus on introducing more cosmetic, monetary, and QoL rewards to reward people for PvPing. PvP should be about skill, not farming combat advantages.
If they buffed current ilvl rewards for PvP it'd just benefit a small portion of players already doing that content. Most people would still be content raiding and doing M+ for their gear.
I think that's killed the majority of people's motivation to PvP already. Removing the power structure in a RPG leads to removing a core part of RPG game play... which is increasing your character's strength.01/17/2018 03:13 PMPosted by YagarrThe best thing to do would be to make ilvl irrelevant in Pvp, both instanced and world. Just reduce the ilvl DR to zero and introduce templates to WPvP. Or (next expansion) reintroduce dual-ilvl PvP gear.
Ultimately Blizzard should focus on introducing more cosmetic, monetary, and QoL rewards to reward people for PvPing. PvP should be about skill, not farming combat advantages.Feels like cosmetics can only go so far for motivation... Having 3 seasons of the same elite xmog when that's the goal most players go for in PvP is NOT an adequate trade off for gear power. If they're going to just give us cosmetics, they better make those cosmetics look awesome, and/or have them actually change each season.
If they buffed current ilvl rewards for PvP it'd just benefit a small portion of players already doing that content. Most people would still be content raiding and doing M+ for their gear.So? Do that then if it actually rewards the players doing PvP without interfering with PvErs. Makes no ****ing sense this way atm.
01/17/2018 03:13 PMPosted by YagarrThe best thing to do would be to make ilvl irrelevant in Pvp, both instanced and world. Just reduce the ilvl DR to zero and introduce templates to WPvP. Or (next expansion) reintroduce dual-ilvl PvP gear.
Ultimately Blizzard should focus on introducing more cosmetic, monetary, and QoL rewards to reward people for PvPing. PvP should be about skill, not farming combat advantages.
If they buffed current ilvl rewards for PvP it'd just benefit a small portion of players already doing that content. Most people would still be content raiding and doing M+ for their gear.
But that's the thing, equalizing it just means that it gets stale. People want progression in pvp, just like how there's progression in PvE. However, stable and balanced progression, that doesn't prevent new players from participating or creating such a huge divide between "gear farmers" and "casuals". And that's not the only reason why people want rewards.
Let me give you an analogy. I think we can all agree that it feels pretty crap to win consistently in 2k+ arenas, and then get destroyed in open world by some person who has never even walked into actual pvp, simply because ilvl makes that much of a difference.
There is literally no reason why pvp gear should be 20-30 ilvls lower than PvE gear. It can be the same ilvl, but weaker in raid environments.
Here are a bunch of concrete solutions:
1. Bring back resilience gear
Resilience gear singlehandedly kept the pvp-pve equilibrium in check. Since resilience was useless in pve, and occupied one entire secondary stat slot, PvErs would always have much higher damage in PvE content. The flipside was, however, that when fighting a pvper - they would burst hard, but the pvper would outsustain them. This created an interesting dynamic in owPvP and actually made both sides feel rewarded in some way. It also meant that each player would be rewarded such that they excel in their form of content, by doing that content.
2. Implement templates in open world pvp.
If Resilience gear isn't an option, this is probably the next best thing they can do (if PvP gives no significant rewards). While I think this would be boring - with the implementation of point #3 and a bit of gear scaling, it could lead to some interesting innovation. Therefore:
3. Make secondary stats on templates freely allocatable (with some kind of fixed cap).
Give every player, let's say, 90% to work with. This way, they can have 45% crit, 20% haste, 15% mastery and 10% versatility. OR they can go for 30% crit, 40% haste, 20% mastery and 0% vers. It allows for different playstyles that utilize skills (whatever little we have left of them) differently. Again, a good example would be BM hunters, who already have a heavily pruned and basic kit. They're underperforming right now because they have a suboptimal stat allocation - and that isn't something they can work around. No player should feel like there are arbitary limitations on their class that are entirely out of their control (and in Blizzard's control). This change allows everyone to play a much more tailored playstyle, min-maxing the value of their talents and giving them different builds to tackle different situations.
From a very casual perspective, it is very boring to do bgs and have no say on your stats, only Ilvl and at low level, even if you have max ilvl gear, the difference is barely noticeable.
No incentive what so ever and the icing on the cake is it takes for ever to get a higher Ilvl do to RNG including gear that is completely irrelevant to your class, some times it takes a while to win a bg and keep on getting the same exact irrelevant piece of gear.
another thing, at lower level, is that i can get many of the highest Ilvl gear from PVE and Professions only a few items from actual PVP.
No incentive what so ever and the icing on the cake is it takes for ever to get a higher Ilvl do to RNG including gear that is completely irrelevant to your class, some times it takes a while to win a bg and keep on getting the same exact irrelevant piece of gear.
another thing, at lower level, is that i can get many of the highest Ilvl gear from PVE and Professions only a few items from actual PVP.
01/16/2018 08:12 AMPosted by Failedwizard01/15/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Xjd...
Aside from the toxicity, this guy has a valid point. Streamers were the ones advocating for the templates and equalization.
That was not toxicity, that's a guy speaking from pure passion.
It is passion and I called this train wreck back in WoD, post after post trying to tell people how bad this was for the game, even calling out the Streamers for doing for personal gain over game health.
01/17/2018 03:13 PMPosted by YagarrThe best thing to do would be to make ilvl irrelevant in Pvp, both instanced and world. Just reduce the ilvl DR to zero and introduce templates to WPvP. Or (next expansion) reintroduce dual-ilvl PvP gear.
Ultimately Blizzard should focus on introducing more cosmetic, monetary, and QoL rewards to reward people for PvPing. PvP should be about skill, not farming combat advantages.
If they buffed current ilvl rewards for PvP it'd just benefit a small portion of players already doing that content. Most people would still be content raiding and doing M+ for their gear.
Blizz needed to go all in with the template system or stick with gear power growth. This current system doesn't please the pro template crowd or the pro gear crowd.
I have given up on trying to make the template work because Blizz allows power disparity in PVP by:
1. Removing gear upper cap in instanced PVP. In MoP and WoD there was a gear upper cap in instanced PVP meaning every player playing PVP within a month could reach this ceiling. Top players reached the upper gear cap faster but it allowed other players or returning players to catch up (longer seasons helped too).
2. Titanforge gear scales too high invalidating often gear you may gain six months from now.
3. RNG drops with RNG stats means you have no control how you character will play even outside of instanced PVP.
4. No ability to test, provide feedback or transparency with template system. If the system is not easy to understand for the average player it simply is not a good system. Blizz has removed other systems less complicated than the template system. Reforging, major glyphs, etc.
01/12/2018 06:39 AMPosted by Osmeric01/11/2018 12:25 PMPosted by BladĂšeTold people this Xpack would suck for Pvp and be more dedicated to PVE content..
No one believed me...
I don't recall if I saw you claiming that, but I would have told you there was a good chance you were correct. And it turned out you were correct.
It was very obvious that casual PvP reward was basically removed.
I wonder if other people predicted this. Oh wait!
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748974720#post-6
I predicted on it a alt rogue along time ago
I think gearing is only half the problem
when people are dying in a 2 sec racial silence, there is the issue of people not playing well enough at lower brackets to even have the desire to get better (especially with no rewards)
the difficulty - reward ratio isn't there, and therefor no one does it
when people are dying in a 2 sec racial silence, there is the issue of people not playing well enough at lower brackets to even have the desire to get better (especially with no rewards)
the difficulty - reward ratio isn't there, and therefor no one does it
Hell yeah Blizzy! I love not being able to customize my character in MMO! I know that you've been able to costomize your character in PvP in the past for about 11+ years! But who care!!!
I love having NO costomization and I hate thinking! Please prune more ability so i can get gladiator while eating fried chicken and singing kumbaya!
KUMBAYA MY LORD, KUMBAYA THANKS FOR free GLADIATOR !!
I love having NO costomization and I hate thinking! Please prune more ability so i can get gladiator while eating fried chicken and singing kumbaya!
KUMBAYA MY LORD, KUMBAYA THANKS FOR free GLADIATOR !!
Agreed. WE HATE TEMPLATES AND WE HATE RANDOM GEAR DROPS!!! LET US BUY OUR GEAR LIKE WE USED TO AND LET THE GEAR BE GOOD NOT CRAP LIKE IT USED TO! This is an rpg. Gear and stats should mean something in pvp! When I'm out in the world a pve player who never does pvp should not be able to demolish me just because he raids. He should definitely be able to kill monsters faster but I should be able to mop the floor with his pathetic pveing BUTT! MAKE GEAR MATTER!
01/09/2018 01:48 PMPosted by YthisensThanks guys for all the feedback here as I've been tracking this thread for quite a while. With Battle for Azeroth we aren't ready to share information on what changes may be coming past what has been shared at BlizzCon.
PVP is something that has been actively discussed going forward into the new expansion, no idea on if any changes are going to be made but keep in mind we still have a whole testing cycle to go through so please keep the discussion up.
Is this one of those copy and paste templates blizzard uses when they try and convince a community they care about them when they really dont?
Bring back conquest and PvP vendors with stat varied gear, no random tokens!
Prune templates, bring back stat customization!
Prune pvp talents, bake them into the classes as you level up again.
You used to learn e.g Spell Reflect at level 64, usable in any content, gating it behind a bg grind at level 110, and making it usable ONLY while in PvP combat is horrendous design.
Prune templates, bring back stat customization!
Prune pvp talents, bake them into the classes as you level up again.
You used to learn e.g Spell Reflect at level 64, usable in any content, gating it behind a bg grind at level 110, and making it usable ONLY while in PvP combat is horrendous design.
The fact that players need to protest this issue is extremely worrying, it shows a real lack of management for PvP.
Combatant gear should be 915, same as LFR. Gladiator gear should be 930, same as normal Antorus.
Combatant gear should obiterate to 5 echos. The vendor should also sell necks, rings, trinkets and relics.
Matches should also drop essences.
Why am I typing this? Blizzard do your job already.
Combatant gear should be 915, same as LFR. Gladiator gear should be 930, same as normal Antorus.
Combatant gear should obiterate to 5 echos. The vendor should also sell necks, rings, trinkets and relics.
Matches should also drop essences.
Why am I typing this? Blizzard do your job already.
I've been playing off an on since just after vanilla released. Vanilla had an insane grind, player ranks, ultimately aiming for high warlord and grand marshal. Was a hell of a grind, and i played like crazy for months attempting it. Only made it warlord, but there was a drive to pvp, to keep going.
BC came out, arenas and resilience gear were the new thing. You played for your gear, piece by piece. Resilience was annoying as all, but, the more you got from your pvp gear, the more you felt like you earned it. There was rewards, and you knew how to obtain them, and they mattered.
I played this game for pvp only. I raided a bit, did some dungeons, but they weren't my focus by any means. I played to do bg's and arena's and what little world pvp still existed.
Foward to now.....In my opinion, PVE has become a great success. I now enjoy it quite a bit, aside from the RNG of all the gear. PVP on the other hand, theres no drive. I'm not good enough, or care enough for the glad title. I'm not driven enough to really even take arena seriously. I've done maybe 100 total matches all of legion, some pug RBGs and quite a bit bgs. I enjoy pvp still, for sure. And part of me enjoys the teamwork of a coordinated team, to push and test your skills against other. But how many hours, days, months years have you guys put into being good at pvp. What do you get from that? A rating for a season, and a title. Maybe a mount. You got 90% of your gear from pve. The pvp gear you did, doesn't matter. In fact, only reason you're wearing it is because its 5 ilvl higher when you queue.
Done with my long rant, maybe didn't mean anything in the end. Just not enjoying where pvp has gone with this game. It has potential, but feel its been forgotten and never was completed.
Really hoping BfA can turn it around. Take some time to do it right, and please don't cast aside the forums. There's a lot of crap in it, but there are a lot of people just trying to voice concerns.
BC came out, arenas and resilience gear were the new thing. You played for your gear, piece by piece. Resilience was annoying as all, but, the more you got from your pvp gear, the more you felt like you earned it. There was rewards, and you knew how to obtain them, and they mattered.
I played this game for pvp only. I raided a bit, did some dungeons, but they weren't my focus by any means. I played to do bg's and arena's and what little world pvp still existed.
Foward to now.....In my opinion, PVE has become a great success. I now enjoy it quite a bit, aside from the RNG of all the gear. PVP on the other hand, theres no drive. I'm not good enough, or care enough for the glad title. I'm not driven enough to really even take arena seriously. I've done maybe 100 total matches all of legion, some pug RBGs and quite a bit bgs. I enjoy pvp still, for sure. And part of me enjoys the teamwork of a coordinated team, to push and test your skills against other. But how many hours, days, months years have you guys put into being good at pvp. What do you get from that? A rating for a season, and a title. Maybe a mount. You got 90% of your gear from pve. The pvp gear you did, doesn't matter. In fact, only reason you're wearing it is because its 5 ilvl higher when you queue.
Done with my long rant, maybe didn't mean anything in the end. Just not enjoying where pvp has gone with this game. It has potential, but feel its been forgotten and never was completed.
Really hoping BfA can turn it around. Take some time to do it right, and please don't cast aside the forums. There's a lot of crap in it, but there are a lot of people just trying to voice concerns.
100% miss the old rating requirement for different pieces of gear. Sure, better players have better gear. But that should be motivation to get better so that you can get that gear.
we are just the new Bliz B team's ant farm
they continually use us as a test bed for their ideas
sadly they seem to have serious problems anticipating issues
they continually use us as a test bed for their ideas
sadly they seem to have serious problems anticipating issues
01/21/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Frostyx100% miss the old rating requirement for different pieces of gear. Sure, better players have better gear. But that should be motivation to get better so that you can get that gear.
Don't we have that now?
Bump, keeping this relevant.