Thanks guys for all the feedback here as I've been tracking this thread for quite a while. With Battle for Azeroth we aren't ready to share information on what changes may be coming past what has been shared at BlizzCon.
PVP is something that has been actively discussed going forward into the new expansion, no idea on if any changes are going to be made but keep in mind we still have a whole Alpha and Beta cycle to go through so please keep the discussion up.
Well that’s nice but just so your bosses know. While they are hanging out chatting it up. Most PVPERs already unsubbed from the game at this point. PvP is completely dead if devs haven’t noticed yet.
Also pretty sure it would cost a lot less money to hire someone to make PvP not suck. Than the amount of money you guys are losing to people unsubbing from your game!
There’s my feedback
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
This has been a no win situation for years, and it has literally gone back and forth for years. Either pvp gear is good and pvers are unhappy, or pvp gear is bad and pvpers are unhappy.
They'll probably do something like make gear irrelevant in world pvp with scaling to try and bandaid it
the fact your text was shown in green just highlighted how completely clueless you are to the game's history and how it handled PvP gear in the past, actually not only that: your post just showed how undeserving of that MVP you are.
I smell prejudice for players that play the RPG game a different way you do
In my opinion, the effectiveness of PVP gearing was perfect throughout Legion Season 1-5. In those seasons 2200-2400mmr was reasonably competitive with heroic tier raiding gear. To clarify, set bonuses and the technical highest ilvl loot (Mythic raiding) was still exclusive to PVE content, which meant raiders were not forced to PVP to compete for PVE content.
It's just this season were PVP gear feels completely under powered, especially without any titan forging.
what should be done is the gear should just give straight stats like say you get a helmet piece. it should just have
1000 str
1000 stam
ilvl 960
That way pve'rs dont feel obligated to pvp and then we still get our ilvl. my warrior has been 2k+ every season and im stuck at about 930 ilvl because i only pvp.
Thanks guys for all the feedback here as I've been tracking this thread for quite a while. With Battle for Azeroth we aren't ready to share information on what changes may be coming past what has been shared at BlizzCon.
PVP is something that has been actively discussed going forward into the new expansion, no idea on if any changes are going to be made but keep in mind we still have a whole Alpha and Beta cycle to go through so please keep the discussion up.
Unsatisfied Customer: "My cheeseburger has no cheese."
Employee: "Oh ... you wanted cheese on your burger? Well thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate it."
"Right now we as a franchise are not ready to divulge any secrets about our next burger and I have no idea if it's gonna have any cheese or not but stay tuned!!!"
Jesus Christ just put the cheese on pvp, hotfix it this ain't rocket science!!
Thanks guys for all the feedback here as I've been tracking this thread for quite a while. With Battle for Azeroth we aren't ready to share information on what changes may be coming past what has been shared at BlizzCon.
PVP is something that has been actively discussed going forward into the new expansion, no idea on if any changes are going to be made but keep in mind we still have a whole Alpha and Beta cycle to go through so please keep the discussion up.
That's great and all but let's be honest here; BfA is likely 8+ months away. Why is the live game being left to languish as it has throughout a very weak expansion for PvP? There has been ample time and opportunity to do
something to improve the situation but all we have received is silence or "next expansion will fix it" pipe-dreams.
and your post tells me you don't understand how to interpret statements very well.
No, I'm pretty sure he understands it reasonably well.
In fact, he addressed it in the same post shortly after the section you quoted:
But your company makes these completely unsubstantiated claims about listening "the next time" time and time again.
Your interpretation is quite literally those same unsubstantiated pipe dream claims.
I don't think Sadar or any of us want to be a jerk to Ythisens or ruin his day or anything, but that kind of PR "hey we're listening this time we swear guys" statement means nothing to anyone that's played long enough to see it never come to fruition.
If I sit here and tell you "we hear you" for 5+ years and never once actually
do something, eventually that statement loses any weight or meaning behind it.
You can look at the Hunter "Let's Talk" thread for the same exact thing. A gajillion posts, a "good discussion guys we're reading this" Blue response only for zero changes to happen, good or bad.
Again, it's nothing personal towards the CMs, they're all reasonably cool dudes, but these kinds of responses haven't held any water for a long time now because of the actual developers' track record.
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
This has been a no win situation for years, and it has literally gone back and forth for years. Either pvp gear is good and pvers are unhappy, or pvp gear is bad and pvpers are unhappy.
They'll probably do something like make gear irrelevant in world pvp with scaling to try and bandaid it
PvE Gear isn't hard to come by though, anyone can steamroll Heroic weekly and titanforge to hell and back. Making PvP remotely rewarding wouldn't change that.
Pvp takes a back seat to everything, they probably don't have a single employee that even does pvp.
Pvp takes a back seat to everything, they probably don't have a single employee that even does pvp.
Talbadar, Starship and a few others work at Blizzard now if i remember but they're not devs.
01/09/2018 09:16 PMPosted by
Vandren
Thanks guys for all the feedback here as I've been tracking this thread for quite a while. With Battle for Azeroth we aren't ready to share information on what changes may be coming past what has been shared at BlizzCon.
PVP is something that has been actively discussed going forward into the new expansion, no idea on if any changes are going to be made but keep in mind we still have a whole Alpha and Beta cycle to go through so please keep the discussion up.
That's great and all but let's be honest here; BfA is likely 8+ months away. Why is the live game being left to languish as it has throughout a very weak expansion for PvP? There has been ample time and opportunity to do something to improve the situation but all we have received is silence or "next expansion will fix it" pipe-dreams.
Because this cash cow is milked, on to the new one just like in WoD
01/09/2018 07:09 PMPosted by
Fox
...
I'm afraid this post is from last month. Please be mindful of necroing posts in the future. I'm going to have to lock this thread now.
This made me chuckle not gonna lie. The blue also only posted here after I linked him it in a thread on GD titled "Why" with the words "Discuss" as the post, which he had replied to with "Blue".
I'll still take it though, better than nothing. =P
Hey we actually posted the same thing at almost the exact same time on that gd thread. Mine was actually first dbag.
01/09/2018 07:09 PMPosted by
Fox
... This made me chuckle not gonna lie. The blue also only posted here after I linked him it in a thread on GD titled "Why" with the words "Discuss" as the post, which he had replied to with "Blue".
I'll still take it though, better than nothing. =P
Hey we actually posted the same thing at almost the exact same time on that gd thread. Mine was actually first dbag.
Oh wow, so you did. Great minds and all that. =P I've actually been trying to get this post attention for a while now. Tweeted the wowdevs, tweeted holinka, tweeted ion, started posting links to it on just random blue dev posts, lol... was getting kinda desperate. ><
Remember when Blues said to participate in alpha/beta for PvP discussion and they didn't listen to 99% of what we said were bad ideas and rolled it out anyways? Good times, I'm sure it'll be different THIS time
and your post tells me you don't understand how to interpret statements very well.
No, I'm pretty sure he understands it reasonably well.
In fact, he addressed it in the same post shortly after the section you quoted:
But your company makes these completely unsubstantiated claims about listening "the next time" time and time again.
Your interpretation is quite literally those same unsubstantiated pipe dream claims.
I don't think Sadar or any of us want to be a jerk to Ythisens or ruin his day or anything, but that kind of PR "hey we're listening this time we swear guys" statement means nothing to anyone that's played long enough to see it never come to fruition.
If I sit here and tell you "we hear you" for 5+ years and never once actually do something, eventually that statement loses any weight or meaning behind it.
You can look at the Hunter "Let's Talk" thread for the same exact thing. A gajillion posts, a "good discussion guys we're reading this" Blue response only for zero changes to happen, good or bad.
Again, it's nothing personal towards the CMs, they're all reasonably cool dudes, but these kinds of responses haven't held any water for a long time now because of the actual developers' track record.
of course you can and should be cynical pvp has beem terrible for years and now even gearing is awful i get that h3ll we all do.
but for about forever all we wanted was some attention and dialogue and a blue posting in here is meaningful with all due cynicism.
nobody should bow down and be super grateful im just saying try to be productive and put your saltiness aside.
nobody should bow down and be super grateful im just saying try to be productive and put your saltiness aside.
God forbid we expose them to the LFG mentality of toxicity... They'd never come back. That's probably why we have so few blues post here actually lol...
I know I've been somewhat guilty of that in the past, as a blue dev posted on a random idiot's thread where the idiot had made incorrect assumptions to begin with... and there was a thread as big as this one about our elite mogs... without a blue post in it... I kinda lost it lol. >< It's hard to not let the frustration of the PvP situation boil over when you're finally given an outlet to express your thoughts.
Pretending that Arena Forum toxicity is the reason why Blues don't post is bs. General Discussion is legit cancer and it gets 10x as much Blue activity on dumb topics.
Your post doesn't tell me anything at all. It's value to me is virtually nonexistent.
and your post tells me you don't understand how to interpret statements very well.
for the rest of us it says:
"hey forum dudes, some of us blizzard employees actually read the arena forums and we are talking about the fact that you aren't happy and maybe we can change things moving forward into BfA"
Oh I interpret statements excellently. The statement I interpreted was hundreds of pages of virtually identical feedback on PvP that Blizzard got in MoP S15, pre-WoD, throughout WoD, alpha & beta of Legion and then throughout Legion too - all completely wasted.
Talking about "hey this is great discussion we hear you out and we wanna do something" only works when you occasionally actually do something based on the discussion you're referencing.
A company I'm ACTIVELY paying who virtually dips out of intervening on PvP development AT ALL after the half-expansion mark hits and then doesn't do anything with the promise of "working to make the next game better" gets zero kudos, zero "great to hear from you" or anything like that.
Any decently sized company is going to have a good PR team that knows when to communicate and when it'll do more harm than good (i.e. your team doesn't actually plan on doing things that people want and it'll just fire everyone up discussing them) but god it's weird seeing Blizzard which used to be my golden standard for invested game developers going for this politicianesque PR stance where I can't really discern anything from what they post anymore.
If that sounds whiny or cynical I hear you but I also have a few years of recent data that brought me to that view.
01/09/2018 10:09 PMPosted by
Courser
Remember when Blues said to participate in alpha/beta for PvP discussion and they didn't listen to 99% of what we said were bad ideas and rolled it out anyways? Good times, I'm sure it'll be different THIS time
That is the problem with Blizzard's Alpha/Beta "Totally not a hype building publicity stunt" cycle. By the time something hits the public "beta", outside of game-breaking bugs or possible number issues, it is pretty much set in stone.
Any mechanical issues (like all three specs of Hunter or Outlaw Rogue to name a few examples) got pushed to live, steamrolling volumes of feedback on the issues. Remember the countless text walls pointing out Ashran issues? Utterly ignored. PvP rewards being a laughing stock and paying out less than literally
chasing squirrels around in world quests? Too much effort to fix. Push it to live.
Sorry guys, 3+ expansions of being how important beta feedback is only to blow pretty much all of it off isn't a rough patch, its tradition.
Talking about "hey this is great discussion we hear you out and we wanna do something" only works when you occasionally actually do something based on the discussion you're referencing.
A-frigging-men to this. It's pathetic Heroes of the Storm, run on a fraction of the budget and resources WoW is, can be more responsive to player feedback than the developers here.
The whole "Just wait. Expansion X will fix it" was a piss poor excuse in Burning Crusade days and hasn't gotten any more acceptable ten years later.