I was just looking at that. It's sad just how pathetic they are with the PvP community.12/17/2017 02:37 PMPosted by Selvarianlol 300+ likes and no blue post. LeL
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Meh at one point I thought PvP really had a chance to take off in wrath/cata/mop, but its been pretty neglected.
No new bg since MoP.
Class changes the community strongly came out against.
Removal of stat customization in pvp (templates are ok, but maybe give us some stats to allocate).
WPvP is a joke and so is dueling (it took them over a year to dish out 40% dmg reduction in WPvP).
Remember when they thought after one predigested they should reset honor talents? Remember when they thought that was a good idea? lol.
Used to be able to do bgs for days, it always felt like there was something to master about your class or something you could get better at but that feeling is just gone now.
Still hopeful for BfA though. Legion classes arnt that far off from being fun again. Add some resource management, give 1-2 buttons back to rotations, and give some utility spells back and I think then we've gotta pretty solid game.
Shutout to holinka though, I think that guy did a pretty good job, just got stuck holding the bag of class changes. If I remember correctly, he may be the only reason we even have honor talents.
No new bg since MoP.
Class changes the community strongly came out against.
Removal of stat customization in pvp (templates are ok, but maybe give us some stats to allocate).
WPvP is a joke and so is dueling (it took them over a year to dish out 40% dmg reduction in WPvP).
Remember when they thought after one predigested they should reset honor talents? Remember when they thought that was a good idea? lol.
Used to be able to do bgs for days, it always felt like there was something to master about your class or something you could get better at but that feeling is just gone now.
Still hopeful for BfA though. Legion classes arnt that far off from being fun again. Add some resource management, give 1-2 buttons back to rotations, and give some utility spells back and I think then we've gotta pretty solid game.
Shutout to holinka though, I think that guy did a pretty good job, just got stuck holding the bag of class changes. If I remember correctly, he may be the only reason we even have honor talents.
The last blue post was a "Final Season Cutoffs" from Season 2 (8 months ago). The last relevant post where they talked about their decisions was "Working on the Human Racial" on Dec 8, 2015.12/17/2017 02:56 PMPosted by FoxI was just looking at that. It's sad just how pathetic they are with the PvP community.12/17/2017 02:37 PMPosted by Selvarianlol 300+ likes and no blue post. LeL
Congratulations Blizzard. You went on for 2 years without talking to us in this forum.
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They actually had replied to a post about the elite xmogs before as well, which was around season 3's start i believe.12/17/2017 03:43 PMPosted by Jharax<span class="truncated">...</span> I was just looking at that. It's sad just how pathetic they are with the PvP community.The last blue post was a "Final Season Cutoffs" from Season 2 (8 months ago). The last relevant post where they talked about their decisions was "Working on the Human Racial" on Dec 8, 2015.
Congratulations Blizzard. You went on for 2 years without talking to us in this forum.
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Bump, blizzard this thread is not going away
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This thread kind of got me thinking....
What games does WoW compete against nowadays? MOBAS and FPS.
Games that are easy to jump into and bam your right at the end game, games that reward Skinner boxes to keep people around. With simple things to master like mouse precision.
However I do not think the MMO crowd generally likes the above, generally the MMO crowd likes the feel of progression (both in gear and in mastery of a class). (utilization of mastery is a great way to retain players, its fun to win lol). Blizzard seems to have taken the direction of turning a MMO into a FPS/MOBA with the simplifying of classes and skinner box type gearing.
It seems blizz may of misread their audience (PvP participation is way down). Any instances of successful MMOs that have this kinda of reward system? WoW did not start like this. I'd be very curious as to sub numbers esp with how rng ALSO has a large impact in PvE w/ legendarys and titan/warforgeing and stats that are on the item.
In PvE at least you go to a boss and you know X piece of gear has a chance to drop. If boss dosent drop the stats on the item then you know you can go to X boss tomorrow or next week for another chance. In other words there is a clear path you know you need to take to get said piece of gear.
Where as in PvP you pretty much only get 1 good piece of random gear a week, and it has a high chance to be something you've already gotten. Gear in PvP seems rather hopeless, 'oh boy i got another trinket, and there is nothin i can do about it' type feel. No clear path.
So after that long ramble, i guess my question would be did wow need to make these changes to survive, or would it of been fine generally keeping the same reward system? It seems to me like it would of been fine staying the same. But if they did need to make these changes to survive, then i guess id be for it although i really despise it.
What games does WoW compete against nowadays? MOBAS and FPS.
Games that are easy to jump into and bam your right at the end game, games that reward Skinner boxes to keep people around. With simple things to master like mouse precision.
However I do not think the MMO crowd generally likes the above, generally the MMO crowd likes the feel of progression (both in gear and in mastery of a class). (utilization of mastery is a great way to retain players, its fun to win lol). Blizzard seems to have taken the direction of turning a MMO into a FPS/MOBA with the simplifying of classes and skinner box type gearing.
It seems blizz may of misread their audience (PvP participation is way down). Any instances of successful MMOs that have this kinda of reward system? WoW did not start like this. I'd be very curious as to sub numbers esp with how rng ALSO has a large impact in PvE w/ legendarys and titan/warforgeing and stats that are on the item.
In PvE at least you go to a boss and you know X piece of gear has a chance to drop. If boss dosent drop the stats on the item then you know you can go to X boss tomorrow or next week for another chance. In other words there is a clear path you know you need to take to get said piece of gear.
Where as in PvP you pretty much only get 1 good piece of random gear a week, and it has a high chance to be something you've already gotten. Gear in PvP seems rather hopeless, 'oh boy i got another trinket, and there is nothin i can do about it' type feel. No clear path.
So after that long ramble, i guess my question would be did wow need to make these changes to survive, or would it of been fine generally keeping the same reward system? It seems to me like it would of been fine staying the same. But if they did need to make these changes to survive, then i guess id be for it although i really despise it.
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The lack of response to such a well constructed post with +300 likes says a lot about how much Blizzard really cares about PvP.
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All they have to do is shift every bracket up 20 item levels or so. Shouldn't really take much time or effort tbh.
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lol blizz cmon we need a response
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12/17/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Davidclarkelol blizz cmon we need a response
What should they say?
"Well, you know arena forums how we said for multiple expansions that gear progression was important even in PvP and you ridiculed us endlessly for it? Well, we finally gave in and Legion to give it a try and, like we predicted all a long, it killed casual PvP partcipation and overall makes PvP feel lacking since this is after all an MMO and not a MOBA/FPS. We wish we just told you "you think you do but you don't" but unfortunately we tried it and managed to crush a segment of our game."
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But it's not a simple "you asked for X, so we gave you X instead of Y". There are a lot of in-betweens that could be improved on. If you look at Venruki's post, you'll see how worthless PvP gearing is (even ilv wise). And you still need gear for PvP (a 2/3/4% increase in character power is actually important if you want to be somewhat competitive).12/17/2017 11:56 PMPosted by Argorwal12/17/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Davidclarkelol blizz cmon we need a response
What should they say?
"Well, you know arena forums how we said for multiple expansions that gear progression was important even in PvP and you ridiculed us endlessly for it? Well, we finally gave in and Legion to give it a try and, like we predicted all a long, it killed casual PvP partcipation and overall makes PvP feel lacking since this is after all an MMO and not a MOBA/FPS. We wish we just told you "you think you do but you don't" but unfortunately we tried it and managed to crush a segment of our game."
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bump
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wonder if they employ people to check the forums and to have customer service with all that money we pay in subs every month. hmmmm
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agreed. imo we should have the conquest system for gearing
on top of that id actually kill for reforging and enchants to be reintroduced to the game, i miss the customization of how i wanted to build my character stat wise for pvp and pve. dreams
on top of that id actually kill for reforging and enchants to be reintroduced to the game, i miss the customization of how i wanted to build my character stat wise for pvp and pve. dreams
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Blizzard needs someone in charge of PvP who actually does nothing but PvP.
Who runs the PvP show now? I bet they are knee deep in the new raid, whatever it's called.
Nothing else to be said except for...bump.
Who runs the PvP show now? I bet they are knee deep in the new raid, whatever it's called.
Nothing else to be said except for...bump.
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12/18/2017 07:09 AMPosted by FlexyooBlizzard needs someone in charge of PvP who actually does nothing but PvP.
Who runs the PvP show now? I bet they are knee deep in the new raid, whatever it's called.
Nothing else to be said except for...bump.
They specifically designed Legion PvP to be more appealing to people who spent a lot of time doing non-PvP activities.
That's why gearing sucks for PvP players now but it's fine for raiders.
Holinka admitted on the Rally Point e-sports podcast that their biggest goal for Legion PvP was to get more WoW players (think general discussion people) participating in it, not to make it more enjoyable for the people who already participate.
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12/18/2017 07:13 AMPosted by OverprunedHolinka admitted on the Rally Point e-sports podcast that their biggest goal for Legion PvP was to get more WoW players (think general discussion people) participating in it, not to make it more enjoyable for the people who already participate.
If this is true, it seems like they accomplished exactly 0% of their goal, but succeeded in their concession lol.
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12/17/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Davidclarkelol blizz cmon we need a response
12/18/2017 03:26 AMPosted by Survalwonder if they employ people to check the forums and to have customer service with all that money we pay in subs every month. hmmmm
People seriously, post in the GD thread. GD gets a lot more traction than the arena forums.
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Also all this talk about how this is the arena forums fault is ridiculous.
They did NOT make this change based on arena forum feedback. Like I said in the post above, we weren't the target audience and Holinka admitted it when he was interviewed on a podcast.
The way they sold this to us is as follows:
1. No more difference between PvP gear and PvE gear. Gear is just gear.
2. ilvl won't matter, you can jump in on a freshly capped 110 and go to work without doing any dungeons or anything! Yeah it means giving up your stat customization, but it will be totally worth it, we promise.
What they actually delivered was:
1. ilvl still matters some (try playing on an 840 character if you think it doesn't) but you can't target pieces anymore, you have to gear up through RNG drops
2. Furthermore, BGs will reward worse gear than LFR, high level 3s will reward worse gear than Mythics, etc.
3. Further still, you also have to grind artifacts or else you're underpowered for months and months until Knowledge scales reasonably.
4. And you have to grind to unlock your PvP talents on every character.
5. But don't worry, we're still taking your stat customization away!
They did NOT make this change based on arena forum feedback. Like I said in the post above, we weren't the target audience and Holinka admitted it when he was interviewed on a podcast.
The way they sold this to us is as follows:
1. No more difference between PvP gear and PvE gear. Gear is just gear.
2. ilvl won't matter, you can jump in on a freshly capped 110 and go to work without doing any dungeons or anything! Yeah it means giving up your stat customization, but it will be totally worth it, we promise.
What they actually delivered was:
1. ilvl still matters some (try playing on an 840 character if you think it doesn't) but you can't target pieces anymore, you have to gear up through RNG drops
2. Furthermore, BGs will reward worse gear than LFR, high level 3s will reward worse gear than Mythics, etc.
3. Further still, you also have to grind artifacts or else you're underpowered for months and months until Knowledge scales reasonably.
4. And you have to grind to unlock your PvP talents on every character.
5. But don't worry, we're still taking your stat customization away!
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12/18/2017 07:54 AMPosted by OverprunedAlso all this talk about how this is the arena forums fault is ridiculous.
I was just speaking pragmatically. GD gets a lot more blue responses and visibility than the arena forums. I think this discussion is more impactful there is all.
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