I have played probably longer than you have! I played way back and I dare not use the whole “Vanilla” term because its over used as a verification. But I always pvpd always, before BGs I world Pvpd, then when Bgs came in I pvpd for hours and hours, hell AV used to last 7 hours alone!
Your perception of MMORPG is dungeons, mine is Battlegrounds and killing people in the world. Neither is incorrect!
EDIT: As a matter of fact we used to push for Grand Marshal and High Warlord, we would farm 400,000 honor a week and Blizzard had a website where we would follow our ranks and see who we had to beat to rank up.
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I started playing in beta when mages could pyroblast from invisibility (which didn’t even make it into the final game), and then immediately POM another pyroblast for an insta-kill. Or when priest’s shackle undead worked on PCs and would last for like 1 minute without breaking.
What are you talking about? All gear in early Vanilla came from PvE. You weren’t going to do well in EPL if you didn’t have purple gear that you got from dungeons. Even after the honor system came out, only a tiny minority of players could get all purple gear from PvP. And even though it emphasized stamina more than PvE gear, you could waste people with PvE gear no problem. (And the best PvP players on my server didn’t use all HWL gear, they mixed in PvE pieces).
I didn’t say your desire to PvP only is incorrect, I just said that it isn’t the way the game was originally designed. And again, even when the honor system came out and you could buy PvP gear, only a VERY small number of people on each server could get all epic gear that way. So even if you did actually get HWL, which I sincerely, sincerely doubt, you were one of what—a few people?—on your server that had that “perception.” Everyone else’s perception was that this is an RPG and they all did RPG stuff like raid dungeons.
Again, if you guys don’t want to do any PvE, then you don’t really like RPGs and should be playing something else, not trying to change this RPG back into a non-RPG.
For the record, I was massively in favor of PvP gearing when it was first implemented. At the time, I just didn’t have the time to get the best full epic (t2) gear from PvE, and felt like I was at a disadvantage. In hindsight, that was the beginning of the decline in overall game quality. I should have pushed for easier PvE gearing, which we have now with mythic plus (no 40 man raid required) and no PvP gearing. That’s the best system for an RPG.
Thats your opinion, If you don’t want to PvP than apparently “YOU” don’t like MMORPGS either you should play a Single player game. Some of us like reacting to actual thinking humans, instead of running to A, killing C, and then avoiding B!
You also forgot very little people had Epic gear in vanilla, Blue Gear was considered well geared. Epic Gear was rare, most raiders had some blues. This is a moot point however, we all Pvpd nonetheless!
Pvpers don’t ruin your dragon slaying, don’t ruin our Bgs!
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I do like PvP, it’s my favorite part of the game and like I said two times above, if there was no PvP in this game I wouldn’t play it. (There are way better PvE-only games out there).
And no, blue gear was not considered well-geared. Epic gear was much more rare than it is now, but having epic gear in general wasn’t totally out-of-the ordinary. I PvE’d fairly casually and had maybe 50% epic gear on my mage, the rest being blue Stratholme gear and later blue PvP gear.
This thread is unbelievable. None of you have once addressed my point that PvE is a core feature of any RPG, including this one. You just keep saying “that’s just like your opinion man,” as if that was a substantive argument that contributed the conversation. (It’s not).
Why can’t you just admit that dungeon raiding to get loot is one of the core features of literally every single RPG ever made? Why is that hard for you to admit?
Oh certainly, I was not disputing that, when Blizzard implemented PvP Gear that all changed. I disagreed with your premise that if you don’t want to Dungeon don’t play WoW!
I like you would unsub in a nano second if they no longer had instanced pvp. I only play the game to get better gear so I can be better at pvp. I don’t want to dungeon or raid at all, but If I must I will.
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That other guy won’t, I got you confused. Fair point, I get that there is a group of people that would rather just never PvE at all, I just think more people don’t want it that way. I think it makes the overall game less fun because it makes PvE pointless in the eyes of people who would ultimately want to use the gear to actually kill other players.
Have you tried PvE recently? It’s way more fun that it used to be, and less time consuming. It’s fun knowing you can use the gear to smoke people, and it’s just more fun in general because it’s faster paced and you don’t have to wait for a guild to organize a 40-man or even a 20-man raid anymore. I think you might like it if you got into it, you’d appreciate the full game and I think PvP would actually become more fun for you. That’s been my experience and is how I felt in Classic.
Did a few Heroics and was bummed out Fury sucks bad! Arms is to damn slow for me, I feel like I am always waiting. I have a Shadow Priest to lvl 54, and a Ret/ Prot Pld to lvl 58 but I am completely not wanting to level a Covenant to Renown 12 to get better pvp gear…
This is totally not an alt friendly expansion, so I am kinda stuck on this Warrior win, lose, or draw!
Versatility is the best stat for PVP, you take less damage the more Versatility you have while also increasing flat damage. Every single piece of gear from the PVP vendor has Versatility stats and you can upgrade them to a higher item level (Up to ilvl 226 which is equivalent to Mythic Castle Nathria gear) depending on your rating in 2s/3s or RBGs, you can also get ilvl 233 PvP weapons from the great vault if you’re Gladiator in rated PVP in case you didn’t know…
It was until Blizzard put Versatility on all the PvE gear thats better and higher ilvl.
We need Resilience or PvP Power!
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Like I said, you can upgrade PVP gear from the conquest vendor to higher ilvl as long as you have the rating. Don’t do rated PvP? Too bad.
That doesn’t make more people want to pvp, and it certainly does not make it so Raid Gear isn’t superior in pvp.
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I don’t want a stat like resilience, but I think something is needed to make PvP gear the undoubted best choice for almost all slots. I would prefer to see it in set bonuses instead of a meta stat though. That way if you happen to PvE and get a couple pieces you like, you could run them as long as you met your desired set bonuses. Maybe set bonuses up to 5 for armor, set bonuses to pair trinkets and rings in sets of 2, etc. That way you could forego a chosen set bonus and see some slight gear variations.
As some others said, I think time gating is the only bad thing with the current system because it encourages PvE gear instead of running 184 honor gear. However, removing the time gate completely would make people like myself with limited game time fall behind to the point it would not be fun enough to keep playing PvP. It’s a delicate balance. I think a conquest cap of 1,000 per week would be a better compromise.
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I think PVE’rs shouldn’t have to PVP to get things they need in order to PVE better. Just like PVPers shouldn’t be forced to PVE just to get things they need to PVP better. I also think that PVP gear should be USABLE in PVP, but not optimal. And PVE gear should be USABLE in PVP but not optimal.
I definitely miss the days of Resilience gear, because you farmed it in PVP and PVP only. As it appears right now, it seems that people who prefer to PVE are being rewarded by getting access to better gear since PVE gear works the same as PVP gear. But those who only want to PVP, are always going to be slightly behind the curve, which is kind of lame.
I really dislike games that punish you for playing it the way you want. Not everyone wants to PVE beyond leveling to 60. Not everyone likes to read books. Not everyone likes the color blue. Punishing people for not liking those things seems like bad design to me.
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I don’t mind being lower in all stats and power to a Raider thats fine! I do mind a Raider thats done little to know pvp coming into a BG and wiping us clean with their Dragon Killing gear whilst we are all fully geared in our subsequent pvp gear.
This is why pvp gear needs resilience or pvp Power on it.
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