PVP from a twink players perspective, & my solution to fixing it

PVP Battlegrounds
545

I’m really wishing I could’ve played when they were a thing! I would’ve loved to formulate an opinion of my own.

546

Scaling is nothing like templates. Even if you removed enchants/gems, you still can get the gear with stats you want. And like I said, they could allow them to work in wargames so the twinks who want to feel the power of all those stats can still use it.

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547

Now that we have come to some kind of civil solution, I have to go for a while :joy: please, continue to keep it constructive.

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548

Okay, that’s the context I was missing there. Thanks for clarifying. But yeah, this seems like a more than reasonable middle ground.

Edit: When I say the context was missing, I meant that I didn’t know the difference, not that others weren’t clarifying enough. I need sleep…

549

Now that content for PPM (posts per minute) is down, I have to go for a while

:smiley:

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550

The separation was horrible. Q times started out fine but eventually the higher levels stopped popping. If you levelers would enchant your heirlooms you could compete better. Think of it like this. You gonna wipe all your car windows with 1 paper towel or are you gonna use as many as you want? Why bg and gimp yourself? Enchants help with pve as well as pvp. As illidan said “ you are not prepared” get prepared. Get even!

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551

Give me the gold to then i will . Normal players wont even think to waste gold to enchant looms fot leveling most just care to reach max level .

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552

Sounds like a personal problem

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553

We’ve already sort of discussed this approach and why it doesn’t fill the gap, but I’ll try and sum it up.

This really falls on the twinking environment itself, not the leveller. If a bracket isn’t healthy for twinks to play in on its own, adding the “incentive” of destroying undergeared players – which is unfair in itself – appeals to an insignificant number of twinks.

This wasn’t necessary prior to the separation being lifted and shouldn’t be again. Casual BGs should be just that: Casual. Then if you cap your experience, your own BGs are now your max level BGs, and you can compete in them. As well as War Games, Arenas, etc.

Further, most levellers aren’t going to have the funds to afford things like that. Especially brand new players. So then they’re forced to forego a whole avenue of content for being grossly incapable and unable to compete, robbing them from much needed experience before they reach max level.

To even get prepared, you’ll have to spend more gold than you’ll even make up to that point for just one questing green (which almost assuredly won’t even be close to BiS for that bracket), and in farming what’s BiS or close to it, you’ll outlevel the bracket in that alone.

Again, these BGs are meant to supplement the levelling experience.

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554

Reposting because nobody brought up anything against this.

When twinks were separated, queues became longer (due to less players being available) and longer until the point where they were non existant.

Why is this? Is it because nobody wants to face twinks as a twink?
That is the easy answer that doesn’t really consider what exactly is going on.

Consider how often you can get Alterac Valley and IoC in low level brackets. Almost never right? This isn’t due to nobody being interested in 40 mans, nor is it a lack of population. Its due to the fact that if you queue for it, you’ll be in a queue forever.
Why is this? Because nobody queues for it, because they expect the same results.

This situation is exactly what happened to twinks the last time this was attempted. Sure the twink community is significantly larger now, and could possibly sustain itself, but is it worth the risk of that same thing happening? Most of us feel it isn’t.

Separation of brackets is not a viable option in my opinion.

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555

This… honestly doesn’t sound accurate to me. This coincided with the separation? There really has never been a number of twinks high enough in the game to affect the queue for levellers significantly.

To be honest, I really have no idea what you’re saying here. Not to be rude, I’m just not sure at all how it relates.

The thing is, there is no “risk” to be had when you take stomping levellers out of the equation in terms of incentive. We discussed earlier how twinks/experience cappers could be involved in a scaled sort of way, and that I’d see no problem with whatsoever.

But when it comes to the health of the twinking community in a bracket, the responsibility of its health and viability lies squarely with the twinks themselves. Should there be enough that care about a competitive environment – and I take the liberty in saying there are – things’ll be fine without hindering the experience for the levellers.

In the current state of gear, I have to disagree completely.

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556

Yeah, I wish they tried iterating on templates instead of tossing them in the dumpster and going with the goofy invisible ilevel scaling that can’t feasibly work outside of endgame. I loved the idea, but as someone who mostly plays haste-stacked casters I couldn’t stand actually playing with them.

I think only templating primary stats could’ve solved most of the big issues with it. It’d give us full customization over secondaries/trinkets and make sure our characters feel the same inside and outside BGs. Secondary stats would still give us power progression with gear, HP pools would be pretty standardized so people can actually see the balance, etc.

557

I appologize for the confusion. I was specifically referring to twink queue times, not overall queue times.’

Essentially I’m explaining WHY queue times for twinks was much larger. A large misconception propagated throughout this thread is the reason the separated queue times were long was becasue twinks stopped queuing because all they fought was other twinks. The section you’re reffering to is my opinion on why that happened.

I’m totally on board with scaling. My post was mostly talking to people who were arguing for separate brackets.

This coincides with my above point, which was the queue times when twinks were separated. I played mostly 70s and 80s at this time and queue times went from 5 minutes prior to separation to 25 minutes, to 45 minutes, to even hours at a time as the months rolled along.

I hope this clarified things for you. If you need any further clarification let me know.

558

I didn’t play 70-79 in Wrath, but I did play 29s, 39s, 49s, and 59s, all of whom saw a rise in activity after they got games going, until they descended and finally petered out. In all four of those brackets, games collapsed due to excessive class ability imbalance, a theme that repeated itself in Cata and MoP. I did play a ton of 70-74 during the bracket’s golden year of Cata, which took Blizzard fixing the Big Daddy/Bolt Gun atrocity to keep the bracket from dying.

In all cases, many players did amazing work to organize XP-off games (and in the case of 70s, a couple of major attention-getting arena tournaments) despite a bunch of broken systems.

I mention this because I think that separating the queues won’t be the XP-off disaster that some twinks think it will be, but I do think much better options exist for the good of levelers and twinks alike.

560

Okay, thank you for clarifying all that. I can see what you’re saying with AV now, that there’d be enough on by default to do it, but that no one bothers to queue because… well, no one’s queueing.

Again, that does sort of suck, but I have to say it feels the levellers’ experience has to take precedence in that sort of matter. For so long as gear and stats play a role anyway.

I dream of the day they come out and announce having scaled queues and free-for-all queues where absolutely nothing about your character is touched. A win for everybody, no one gets excluded. I’d twink like hell if this day comes soon.

565

Like I said he knows his stuff. Sorry Juga you can paint it up all you like, he knows more than you and I about twinking. Why should he start a toon that’s not twinked? He knows what it’s like, he has wrecked lowbie toons in his day. It’s not that hard to work out what it’s going to be like lol.

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569

The information is there for you to observe.
We need to clean up this game, and players who openly sell exploits will be dealt with accordingly.
Armory is public information, videos etc. all very easily observed.

Some Xpoff players are actually not happy about the actions on these forums.
Players are openly shedding a very poor light on the Twink Community. :ok_hand:
Making false claims was quickly corrected on other forums.

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571

If you are trying to say that he is the only twink that ever does this kind of thing you failed. The twink community is all about exploit, being overpowered, finding the next best thing to blow people up with. He is still far more educated on twinking than most on this forums.

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573

Friend up, get battlenet tags, organise yourselves, websites, community. You have exactly explained the reason twinks die off, they don’t feel OP anymore and coming up against the best of the best, for some takes the fun away for the casual twink.

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577

i do not believe the OP of this thread as having played twinks during the previous XP on and XP off separation period. along with the period where brackets split from x0-x9 to x0-x4 / x0-x9.

the only XP OFF only brackets active when it was all said and done

19’s easy to roll, reroll, hugely popular
20-24’s, fed by F2P capped 20’s considered XP OFF, and later Legend 20’s from once active accounts, gone inactive
70-74 because WOW was BC capped last half of WOTLK, all of CATA, and Half of MOP.
29’s, 39’s, and 49’s had failed revival attempts, 59’s died day one of the split, what OP is calling separation.

half into MOP, blizz added WOTLK to the basic game, and 2-3
months later added CATA to the basic game.

70-74 did suffer slightly then on que times, but still did good
80-84 briefly became active until CATA was added, quickly dying
85-89 became active because it was fed by CATA capped players

skipping WOD, Legion, but now in BFA imo if the brackets are split you would have a repeat with only a slight variance in active brackets

19’s easy to roll, reroll, hugely popular
20-29’s, fed by F2P capped 20’s considered XP OFF, and later Legend 20’s from once active accounts, gone inactive
110’s because blizz made it a single bracket, it would be fed by Legion capped players, and like 20-29 totally imbalanced

splitting the brackets, was devastating when WOW had a 10 mil player base, again… i do not believe the OP of this thread actually experienced the original split, or was twinking in the original split with comments he/she is claiming. or considering that EU and NA may be each below 1 mil actual players

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