PvP Enhancement Shaman feedback

Classes Shaman
1

-Mobility has fallen behind. Rets and Dks had some of the worst mobility until TWW made that a lot better. Enhance sham is now the least mobile melee in the game in pvp and it shows. Improving Feral Lunge baseline would be great and largely all thats needed, ie a baseline talent learned at a later level “Improved Feral Lunge: Feral Lunge cooldown reduced by 15 seconds and now grants immunity to roots and slows for 2 seconds when you land on your target” would be great.

-Honor talents are congested with defensive talents and losing AG hurt our personal survivability. Grounding, Stormweaver and Burrow are all very good defensive talents, with Burrow and Grounding being practically necessary leaving us with 1 actual choice. It would be nice to get Stormweaver in the spec tree for Enhance or possibly Burrow baseline. Something to free up an honor talent slot here. With the loss of AG, it’d be nice to have an extra defensive talent that isn’t in honor talents that we can take. Another option is the removal of burrow completely with the addition of a 2nd charge of wall. It is also possible to update current defensives in the class tree, ie “Earth elemental grants you an absorb shield when summoned” or "Earth shield grants the Shaman 5% physical damage reduction (can be different % for ele/resto), things like this would help without adding new talents.

Enhance is really fun in 11.1, but has some issues especially with uptime and having too many defensive choices locked behind honor talents. Loss of AG hurt the spec pretty hard survivability wise as well. We only need a change to one of these things. We do not need improved survivability -and- improved mobility, but we do need one of those weaknesses to be improved. My choice would be mobility as that is just more fun and enjoyable without effecting the game as a whole like more defensiveness would.

4 Likes
2

Try playing r sham bud

3

i’ve tried a few games of it, feels pretty good right now imo. Earthen is sadly still as annoying as it has been but overall it feels great healing wise and utility wise. I played farseer mostly.

4

Farseer slaps just some issues here and there but enhance just suffers from the classic it pumps atm but gotta be on your target type stuff

5

Yeah uptime is just really bad into a lot of classes. I think enhance is the only melee spec that hasn’t had any major mobility updates since like SL and its starting to show. DKs got a better version of Divine Steed, Pallies have freedom on a short cd+steed and passive speed increases with their blessings now too. It didnt matter as much when Static was a shorter CD, but it got nerfed largely due to Rsham and it should not have been nerfed for Enh at all. Anti mobility (like death grip) is a decent solution to very mobile specs without adding more mobility into the game. Spirit walk is on a 1 min CD and far worse than Death Charger and Freedom for example, and Dks can take wraith walk+death charger whereas we can’t take spirit walk+gust. But again main solution is to just unnerf Static for enh.

The other issue is how easy it is to counter enh damage currently. Anything that dodges/parries (warriors, monks) and disarms (rogues, monks, surv hunters, warriors etc) can shut down enh dmg very easily atm. So now theres uptime issues and a very common way to counter the damage outside of that. And with the new Pwave change, spreading flame shock is harder than before and we have no really good way to do that if people are spread which happens often in pvp.

Losing AG also hurt enh pretty hard. Feels like my team dies a lot faster with me now than before. It was probably too good, but healing stream buffs didnt really do enough to make up for the loss in any major way.

And lastly Enh has no MS. I dont think its as big of an issue since utility can make up for that, but now we have uptime issues, easily counterable damage and slight survivability issues with no real way of utilizing off healing well, so its adding up lol.

3 Likes
6

Could make it so when enhance flameshock is dispelled the player it was dispelled from has -20% attack range, same as the frost dk aura.
Call it flashburn or something, reduces vision yadda yadda.

It doesn’t really solve a 1v1 issue but in 1v1 you can exploit los better to reduce max range potential, for group situations it opens it up a bit as it doesn’t prevent people from dispelling flameshock so much as it just acts as a minor nuisance with the kiting potential for your team. You lose damage and they’re forced to play a bit closer.

Mobility wise I think natures guardian should reset feral lunge. It feels bad when you get dropped with no maelstrom and nobody within melee.

7

Yeah, really need a better way to apply flame shock or keep it applied. I think letting Ele blast work with Voltaic blaze would be good, or just making the damage from the dispel protection much more dangerous. 300k damage and a small knockup from dispel is so bad when you compare it to other dots especially ones that are spammable. Flame shock could silence and do 500k+ dmg or just something.

Alternatively, they could make it so Pwave still applies flame shock to your target since PWave has a travel time and flame shock is instant. I would vastly prefer this.

Would also like to request something lke this:

-Remove burrow completely or make it a choice node with Stone bulwark totem (just to keep a fun talent in the game instead of removing it) and give us a 2nd charge of Astral Shift (would benefit pve’rs as well)

-Add a new enhance pvp talent that lets Spiritwalkers grace give Stun/Disarm immunity for x seconds. This would make Spiritwalkers playable for PvP enhance and open up some new talent options while helping relieve some of the counterplay enhance currently faces as almost everything currently can counter an enhances damage via either kiting, stunning or disarming.

Removing AG without improving personal survivability or even off healing (healing stream buffs do not make up for it) has felt pretty terrible, and now enhances damage is also counterable because disarm lines up with Doom Winds so it can be shut down multiple ways via kiting, ccing or disarming. Feels really bad.

4 Likes
8

enhance mobility badly needs updates. dks and pallies got mobility updates this expac and in DF for pallies, and they were the other 2 melee that had to deal with being slow. enhance has not had a mobility update in a long time while classes around enhance have just gotten more and more mobile.

we have: bad cc, no MS, counterable damage via disarm and cc as disarm lines up with doom winds, no cc immunity like rogues, wws, rets and wars have, bad mobility, bad off healing with AGs removal and bad defensives made worse with AGs removal.

in the past, we traded having those negatives for very good utility, but our utility has been nerfed over time ie: poison cleansing totem going to a 2 min cd, static field totem going to a 1 1/2 min cd, tremor totem being given to warriors in the form of berserker shout, etc. the only very good unique bit of utility we have left is grounding totem and ranged kick as a melee, but that is not enough to make up for how many negatives enhance has now.

updating feral lunge, maybe decreasing its cd to 15s or giving it 2 charges, and updating spirit walk to be root/slow immunity for its duration would be great. spirit walk being a 1 minute cd where you just get slowed/rooted immediately after pressing it feels terrible. far too many passive roots/slows in the game now.

3 Likes
9

Enhance feels weird now. Gonna switch to rogue for season 2. Hopefully they figure it out next season.

1 Like
10

Even just windrush or spirit walk being a true freedom would go a long ways. They just give so little value when u end up getting slowed immediately after.

2 Likes
11

enhance needs the ret pally treatment of being 20 yard range. We dont have the melee toolkit of other classes.

there are also WAY too many inconsequential buttons making it so we have to do 3x the work of other DPS to do less DPS. Too convoluted and too much bloat. I feel like with enhance their trying to please everyone, but its become a kitchen sink where nothing really flows together and its kind of jumbled mess.

1 Like
12

I don’t feel that way at all tbh, I love the rotation of enhance. There really isn’t a lot to do anymore if you are totemic, it’s very easy, and we have huge dmg every 30 sec and 1 minute that is easy to get out

The issue there though is that our 1 min dmg is counter able via cc and disarms because Doom winds only lasts 8 sec, and our 30 sec burst is counterable via disarms/dodge or parry cds/mobility

Doing damage as enhance feels good, when I have uptime i am always top damage and it comes pretty easy. The issue is I almost never have a lot of uptime unless it’s vs full melee comps and even then they usually have disarm or better mobility so they can just counter my damage.

I’ve heard the same sentiment from two r1 enhance players, we go from being one of the better specs to being one of the worst if we vs anything with mobility, which is basically everything but spriest/ele shaman.

We can’t lock people down ourselves (cap is too short even with double cap and can be killed)

We can’t catch up to people as our mobility is terrible. Gust of wind is countered by knock ups like wind walkers as it’ll go on cd but not move you anywhere. Spirit walkers gets you out of roots only for you to be immediately slowed or re rooted by passive roots/slows. Wind rush is a long cd.

We don’t have MS

Survivability is pretty bad as we have 3 main CDs (stone bulwark, astral shift, earth ele) that are all on pretty long CDs, that forces us into burrow in honor talents which feels awful. Losing AG only made this worse.

Our off healing is terrible now that we lost AG. Healing stream does okay healing but it’s trickle healing, nothing we have actual control over.

Our utility over time has been nerfed or given to other classes. Grounding and ranged kick as a melee are the only two unique things left.

Something needs to be fixed here, and ideally it’s mobility as that has far less of an effect on other aspects of the game.

2 Likes
13

We tried to get that and had quite a few paladins come into our forum and call us stupid for wanting it and that we don’t need it that they are the only ones that should have it baseline like it was.

2 Likes
14

Paladins only gained the 20 yard range in DF 10.1

We have been slinging spells and shocks from a range since vanilla/WOTLK

We also have a range spec to support the fantasy.

15

Paladins have also had ranged spells since vanilla. Judgement and Hammer of Wrath.

When we saw that paladins were getting the melee range increase there was quite a few of us that was asking for that and as I said we had Paladins coming in here stating we do not need or deserve it that they have suffered the most and should get it and that we did not need it.

I was actually shocked at that that they would think that they are the only ones that should get that.

Personally I think Paladins should get a either a ranged spec or dw spec added. Some of their abilities used to do real good damage esp as holy(holy Shock) used to hit like a truck. So they had offensive abilities that were ranged.

16

I don’t think we need more ranged abilities honestly, we have frost shock and ele blast both of which hit hard and now we have prim wave also hitting really hard.

The issue is that so much of our burst and damage is built into doom winds/windfury and it’s such a short duration that it’s insanely easy to counter. One disarm lasts 5 seconds, doom winds lasts 8 seconds. If you trinket the disarm there’s always follow up cc that will last for the rest of the duration. And if no cc is available, they can just kite it out because our mobility is bad.

That’s also why I really dislike the way our honor talents are. I’d rather lose Stormweaver entirely and maybe get burrow in the class tree with Stone bulwark baseline (but have off heals/healing surge get buffed in return so losing damage feels worthwhile) and would like us to get an honor talent related to Doom Winds that maybe increases its cd a bit but also increases its duration, or we just get a talent that lets us have immunity to disarms.

But the reality is, our mobility is just terrible in pvp, cant catch most specs. I think the easiest route for them to take is to just increase our mobility. Reduce cd of feral lunge, make spirit walk grant immunity to roots/slows for its duration. Maybe even an honor talent that lets spiritwalkers grant fear/disarm immunity for 5 seconds so we can make use of spiritwalkers.

It’s getting tiring watching this class especially enh get kinda punished for its “utility” when a lot of that utility has been nerfed pretty heavily over time or given to other specs. I’ve listed the examples of that already.

I feel like enh just ends up feeling like a worse version of warrior most of the time. We have: worse mobility, no MS, war has tremor in the form of berserker shout so tremor is no longer unique, war brings intervene and rally (whereas we bring grounding which is definitely better), worse CC, and slightly worse survivability. It’d be nice if this could change.

17

If they do decide to make changes, I hope it’s not in the form of PVP talents. It always seems like a bandaid fix and like u said, theyre congested as it is.

Enh feels constantly stuck bc we have very few options with dealing with CC. The few options we do have need to be done preemptively, which leaves a lot of room for error. We have nothing we can do in a stun, we have to pre ground cc, we have to pre tremor fears, most don’t take spirit walk so we can’t break roots, we don’t have a real freedom so we’re constantly slowed, we have no mobility so we’re constantly kited.

There are definitely opportunities to address some of these issues in the class/spec tree

  • make tremor totem usable in a fear (like it used to)
  • make windrush a true freedom (like it used to)
  • “winds of al akir” is a really weak talent that no one uses. Improve it.
  • burrow could use some improvements. Maybe being able to use it in a stun? Or recover some health during? As far as a get out of jail free card goes, burrow feels like ond of the worst in the game. Like u can still die in burrow and a lot of the time it’s just delaying the inevitable.
  • and like u suggested. Things could be done with spiritwalkers grace
  • ghost wolf could improve
  • feral lunge could improve
  • and as fun as gust of wind can be, it honestly feels pretty outdated at this point. You’re stuck in the animation forever and its pretty mid compared to other movement spells

but idk, i just feel like if they do anything with pvp talents its gonna go the way of electrocute, where its not nearly a good enough alternative and just gets forgotten about.

3 Likes
18

I really think we just need more mobility and thats it. Thats where I’m at with enhance. Enhance struggles with uptime really badly. Make feral lunge a shorter cd, give spirit walk root/slow immunity. Doesn’t need to be in the form of honor talents.

4 Likes
19

Enh needs more mobility. Multiple charges of feral lunge isn’t the answer either.

Sprit Walk and Gust of Wind need to be separate nodes, give Gust multiple charges. Improve Gust animation to be quicker. Enh Mobility is fixed.

4 Likes
20

Ghostwolf should break roots like druid Shapeshifting.

I mean, you’re a ghost after all… :ghost::wolf:

6 Likes