PvP Damage Reduction Test #2 - May 3

[Abrakastabrå-grobbulus]

I would take server ques over 30 level 50s ganking Ashenvale incursions all day on both sides.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Calliditas-living-flame

@Akitosh-sargeras

I would rather just have balanced classes rather than hidden scaling gutting our numbers

Exactly. This whole PVP damage nerf thing is just a way for Blizz to not havin to adjust individual Rune Abilities that are too overtuned.

It is important for Blizz to stop takin shortcut that end up screwing the game and start actually putting some efforts in game balancing.

LOL a mage complaining about to much burst in pvp, you’re just upset other classes can do it now too.

[Azyra-living-flame]

with the split damage reduction you will be hurting shamans and paladins more then the any other classes since they do both physical and magic

from a healers perception
why the healing reduction, one of the reasons for the damage reduction was to make healers more viable in pvp since players over all damage had gone way up and healing had not increased with it and damages had gotten to the point where people died to fast for any meaning full counterplay.
before the damage reduction dps could just flat out ignore healers and out dps any healing incoming and that felt very bad as healer, what is the point of healing if i cant keep one guy alive right.
with the 50% damage reduction healers was properly a bit to strong but with the large amount of cc and interrupts in the game dps still had tools to neutralize the healers and kill people.
with 20% physical 30% magic and 20% healing you have made sure people don’t die as fast which is good but since the 20% healing reductions will cancel out the physical and most of the magic we all almost back to where dps can ignore healers again.

i am just wondering what is the outcome your want, in my mind my heals should be stronger then a single players damages and properly around 2 to 3 players damages so i should be able to keep someone alive with 3 players on them and no healing debuff like mortal strike or something like that.

the reason for this is simple and i am talking in teams of pure healing vs damage with no cc or interrupts

if i cant out heal one dps i am useless and there is no reason to bring a healer to pvp ever.

if i can only out heal one 1 dps then i am still pretty useless and not worth it compared to another dps.

if i can out heal 2 dps then i start being useful but only to the degree that whether you bring a healer or an dps is pretty much the same.

if i can out heal 3 people you get to the point where dps have to deal with me or they will be at an disadvantage and this is the point you need to get to in team fights or healers will never be useful to bring.

[Stormwolf-crusader-strike]

@Gskherald-grobbulus

It’s pretty easy…

I think you’ll find it’s not when looked with an uncharitable eye.

@Gskherald-grobbulus

Buff stam on PvP gear.

You just wrecked classes that require the target to die in burst, lest they be more or less helpless.
Rogues and Ferals (Not fixed)

@Gskherald-grobbulus

Buff food/water

How does this help me when my face is being chewed off by a rogue?
Do you even PvP?

(I do recognize that this is intended to help with the issues generated by excessive stamina/mana pools, but I’m being an uncharitable player with no reason to acknowledge context for the purposes of this exercise.)

@Gskherald-grobbulus

Add runes that buff classes in areas of weakness.

How about you be specific here.

“It’s so easy.”

@Gskherald-grobbulus

Add more runes overall so players have to choose between PvE and PvP runes on slots. Instead of just giving some classes pure PvP runes and others not.

What kind of runes? Be specific.
(We’ll even pretend you have a full team working on this…)

It’s not like I’m going to poke a hole in every idea you come up with just because I can.

@Gskherald-grobbulus

The issue is that most of the player base are PvEers. They cry that their class is not good enough in PvE. So they get buffs that inadvertently buff them in PvP as well. The PvEers play on PvP servers and don’t want to farm PvP gear then cry when they get destroyed. Because they don’t PvP often they don’t know how to deal with a high damage meta.

But you said its easy.

Well… solve it. I want specifics.

@Gskherald-grobbulus

So instead of tweaking classes and gear they just make a flat damage reduction that makes the game boaring.

So unveil your grand plan, should be easy.

@Gskherald-grobbulus

It’s pretty easy…

@Gskherald-grobbulus

They need 30% magic reduction because casters are OP? No, Void plague, Starfire crits and Chimera Shot crits are OP. Starfire and Chimera shot don’t have a 100% crit chance so they are not always OP not a huge deal there.

1. That’s not all of them.
2. So they’re only OP “sometimes” ?

Interesting.

@Gskherald-grobbulus

And Starfire needs to be cast so it’s easier to avoid.

(I’m going to assume you meant Starsurge, I’m uncharitable for the exercise- not an ***hole.)

This makes the starsurge interaction with Starfire take too long, and without the interaction with Starfire, Starfire is a dead spell. So the Druid has to stand there for a solif 3.5-4.5 seconds like a turret to get one useful spell?

@Gskherald-grobbulus

Void Plague is OP but instead of just reducing it’s damage and adding it to Mind Spike or Mind Blast they decided that a 30% magic damage reduction was the play.

Void Plague is OP in PvP, it’s rather mid in PvE as it is- if they reduced the damage any further it would be pretty much a dead spell on anything other than a boss fight as everything else would already be dead before it did much, and even then- only mildly useful.
It wouldn’t be an improvement to MS or MB and would force an already immobile priest into hardcasting all but one of it’s damaging spells in PvP.

They’re not like druids that can just travel form to gain range anytime they want to break contact…nor do they have Frost Nova and Blink. (Ele Shamans have this issue too, but they at least have Armor and a Shield.)

So, you just made priests into a turret in a heavily mobile game.
Priests are not going to be happy with you. (Not fixed.)

@Gskherald-grobbulus

You could argue that Lava burst is also OP but you need to get up flame shock first which only has a 24 yard range and lava burst has a 30 yard range so it is pretty easy to move out of range of an ele sham.

Well, the Shammy OP threads about getting globaled by an ele shaman aren’t going to be happy with you. (Not Fixed)

@Gskherald-grobbulus

So you gotta reduce caster damage and then allow warriors to have a 60% MS so they can feel good about themselves? Instead of just giving them Spell Reflect and Heroic Throw with gag order?

1. Spell reflect will help a little bit, but it’s not going to save warriors, and it forces them to use a shield, so grats, all the Fury/Arms PvP’ers are mad at you, they already didn’t like having to throw a shield on to interrupt in Phase 1. (Not fixed)

2. Heroic Throw is a 1min CD. Big whoop, I thought you said you were going to fix PvP.

@Gskherald-grobbulus

Also as many have stated none of these changes address the issues that mana users are having. Casters do big dam because they have a limited resource. Once they go oom they can do very little. It is pretty lame to be a caster, set up your burst, and then do no burst… Only to run oom before you can kill your enemy.

(This is why they dropped the damage reduction to 30% for spells instead of 50%)

And when Lava Burst can kill you with just it and an OL Proc… not a great interaction for the target.

So which is it? We’re helping the mages and Shamans by by not reducing the amount of damage they do so they can global melees or are we helping the melees by making the Mages and Shamans OOM before they can kill anyone?

You’ve not provided a workable solution.

@Gskherald-grobbulus

There is no arguing against the fact these changes are lazy and make the game less fun.

Your changes either are also lazy “Just do this broad thing with runes” or they break other interactions and make players mad while trying to fix the individual problem you were trying to solve.

@Gskherald-grobbulus

I have had plenty of longer engaging fights without the DR in the game. Which should be impossible with the way everyone cries about how op damage is.

I’m just gonna go with “Anecdotes won’t save you from the playerbase when you nerf their stuff, or refuse to nerf the stuff that’s killing them.”

@Gskherald-grobbulus

But the majority of players are PvEers and just aren’t very good at PvP. Stop slowing the game down to benefit the BUMS.

Yeah, that’s going to get you real far.

s/

---

Well the upshot is that you are not in a position to fix the issues present with PvP in a PvP & PvE progression game, and therefore cannot be held accountable to it.

This is good because the bad news is…

@Gskherald-grobbulus

It’s pretty easy…

…is not true and you would be eviscerated on the forums for the things you suggest, or fail to suggest.

Balance the game for PvP and every class is boring. (If they’re not boring, then there’s only one best class and that’s the one you’ll see everywhere and PvE is a dud. Like Era with rogues and warriors trying to bribe Hybrids into playing the game so they have healers for raid…)

Balance the game for PvE and some classes just absolutely lose in PvP. (Warriors right now.)

[Allolria-khazgoroth]

Wow, you’re not even hiding the fact you hate DPS casters any more. Why even let DPS casters pvp at all? Just give us all rez sickness as soon as we engage in PVP.

[Cyunvme-lone-wolf]

I’d argue that the three primary damage dealers are Elemental Shaman, Enhancement Shaman, and Balance Druid. While these classes will experience reductions, they won’t feel the impact as severely as a Shadow Priest would. They were already trailing behind these three in terms of damage output, and with these across-the-board reductions, their effectiveness will be significantly diminished, tickling their targets. Implementing a global damage reduction doesn’t directly address the issue; instead, it unfairly penalizes classes with already balanced damage while still granting an advantage to those with excessively high damage output.

In a recent Arathi Basin match, there were two instances where an Elemental Shaman took down three players with just one Chain Lightning, each of them still above 50% health. It’s a sudden and devastating surge of damage. Instead of blanket application, this testing should target classes with exceptional utility that have been dealing excessive damage.

The Horde’s sudden obsession with healing is laughable. Finally facing a challenge, they come out of hiding to whine about their inability to dominate Alliance players. They’ve been coasting on easy mode in world PvP and battlegrounds since level 26, so it’s no surprise they can’t handle a fair fight. It’s like listening to the entitled elite complain about losing their grip on power. Most of them posting under an Alliance char to hide their true intentions, as if we can’t see through their facade.

[Killintime-crusader-strike]

@Cyunvme-lone-wolf

I’d argue that the three primary damage dealers are Elemental Shaman, Enhancement Shaman, and Balance Druid.

Hey 2 out of the 3 are horde only and horribly broken. You know what, let’s buff them again!

[Bugbearbilly-pagle]

Calm down little guy your spectrum is showing

[Wasianbroly-living-flame]

@Shkeku-crusader-strike

We have entered the try anything and hope it works phase

@Ðispel-crusader-strike

My god. They’re learning.

you mean, their login #'s plummeted so now they’re scrambling to do whatever works lol

[Wasianbroly-living-flame]

@Lajin-wild-growth

Like with a 20% heal reduction I’ll still be putting out more than 400hps which is more than enough for pvp

my math might be wrong but my gist is correct.

essentially this test will simulate regular p3 pvp dmg/healing but healing will receive a 10% buff and damage nerfed all around 10-20%ish. i think this test will go 10x better than the first. but more testing will definitely be needed.

[Joofus-crusader-strike]

We have entered? Brother, this has been ALL of SoD

[Balthalor-earthfury]

I would have preferred keeping the 50% DR, but also nerfing healing by 50%.

[Calliditas-living-flame]

First, this toon isnt even maxed, and is just my forum and auction toon.

Second, I am speakin about Blizz’s work in general.

[Contention-benediction]

Couldn’t even get the post to make sense:

@Kaivax

Feedback indicated that the damage reduction was a little too strong, and was a little too strong.

A little too strong…, and a little… too strong?

[Pyrofox-wild-growth]

@Jurten-crusader-strike

Cool I’m done with pvp.

after last weekend I don’t see how any horde could not be done…

[Contention-benediction]

SOD rogue feels so bad, mained rogue since 04, quit in SOD with how out of tune the class is

[Contention-benediction]

Thats about a medium too strong by my gauge

[Welig-lava-lash]

Any fix to mana costs or abilities like vipersting, etc. Some abilities are WAY OP with everything else nerfed.

[Althalus-lone-wolf]

I am happy to see that you all are testing things.

Can you please remove the 30% Health from battlegrounds? If you are doing this big DR it would be nice for open world pvp to feel the same as within bg’s.

I also think you should have done this DR without the healing changed so you didn’t change the variables of the test.

I also don’t think healing from healers was a problem last weekend, it was more the hybrid classes self/off healing was to strong such as frenzied regen/maelstrom/riptide, I think the only fix to this is going to be individually balancing them.

[Tsimbouki-yojamba]

Incompetence levels beyond recommended operating parameters.

A flat DR by say 35% or 40% followed by a flat HR by 25% or something like that.
Enough with these half baked trials.