Those who live by the meta, die from the meta. There are downsides to everything.
a VERY large majority of them, yes.
Kyrian is the best HPS covenant for holy paladins with Venthyr being the best “DPS” Covenant for holy paladins. Holy paladins have to pick between being the best HPS or the best DPS for their content. With many M+ favoring Venthyr.
Ohh man you’re right I forgot about theme choices too!
Think about all those THEMATIC WARLOCKS. You know warlocks? Affliction, death, demons etc?
Warlock breakdown:
155052 out of 201217 are Night Fae for affliction
lmao riiiiiiiiiiiight
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lol no need to be snarky. The original quest was loaded, obviously my reply was as well.
Let me be a bit more detailed in my response here.
Sure in a RPG you want weakness and strength. But we already made that choice when we picked our classes. Blizzard’s intent was for players to identify with a particular covenant (hence the RPG element), but we can all agree one it’s not very interesting, and two it’s not “permanent” because you can still switch given time. If they had wanted to make it a real RPG choice why didn’t they make it permanent like classes are? I suspect even Blizzard recognize just how bad a gameplay decision that would be.
Secondly, let’s establish the fact that not everyone plays WoW because of RPG elements. I know I am not. To be frank WoW is a pretty bad RPG game. Stories aren’t interesting, characters aren’t developed, choices don’t have any plot impact, it’s just not a good RPG game. If I were playing RPG game i’d be playing something else. Not to mention Blizzard encourages players to be competitive to a degree across all game modes. If you want to encourage players to do that then freedom to be prepared for what they are doing should be the minimum requirement.
I hope this answers your questions.
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Really? Then why is it that Holy Paladins are 89% Kyrian and only 6% Venthyr? lol.
As for Warlocks, none of the 4 covenants have anything to do with demons. You got Venthyr which is all about emo vampires and you got boneland which is also… not about demons (and let’s not forget that Necrolords are just broken, which I have admitted to before and say they need serious buffs).
So they go “well if no themes suit my class choice then I’ll default to whatever second best is, picking by ability”.
How does locking covenants cater to anyone? I’m clearly missing something here.
On one hand you punish a smaller part of the audience for 0 gain, and what we propose where you make it a talent row punishes nobody.
There are world ranks, there are warcraft logs. You have no idea how Mythic raiding works based on your comment.
Mythic sire Denathrius is a straight DPS check in P2 and P3. If you do not have enough DPS you will lose the encounter. If everyone in your raid is playing suboptimal covenants it very well could be the difference between a kill and no kill.
Builds? Talents are easily swappable and so are specs. Are you perhaps stuck in classic?
Person tries to tell everyone how they should ideally have fun. Some people have fun killing things fast and getting big numbers while playing with friends.
Yeehaw, right as someone said it was dead too. You love to see it.
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Does it though? You can freely change talents, I don’t see anyone complaining about that?
If no choice is objectively wrong then what is the problem of unlocking it from gameplay’s standpoint?
First of all please don’t presume to know what fun is for other players. But I can tell you for a fact that wiping on a boss 300 times when your entire raid runs troll builds probably isn’t the definition of fun for most players.
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This is why I’ve been saying that the problem is not with the covenants, but rather the content being poorly designed.
M+ and Mythic Raids were a mistake from day one, and they are the source of most of the whining about game balance.
Get rid of M+ and Mythic and suddenly people don’t care about 5% discrepancy here and there.
Because the article has numbers that were published a while ago before people had finished progress (where hps was more needed) and now in farm and people are swapping off to do other content, if you went to the website now you would see the below breakdown.
Kyrian: 146866 out of 192426
Venthyr: 41675 out of 192426
Night Fae(lol): 2501
Necrolord(lol): 1384
You are very good at this discussion thing
Wow this is such a bad take I don’t even know where to begin. M+ is the most universally loved system Blizzard has ever done and Mythic raiding is the best thing to ever come for the raiding community.
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So basically, YOU linked me an out of date article and now you’re calling me out when I use the article that YOU linked to debate with?
Awesome. You’re a misleading troll. Good to know.
I linked you an article which read through some statistics that literally hate a date assigned to it with the source material linked twice in the original post. Do you want me to draw a picture with crayons to help explain the numbers form the source website too?
I love how you accidently proved that covenants are garbage by being lazy, thank you for that.
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Oh good, so guilds can clear heroic in several weeks and then quit the game until next patch. Brilliant.
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LOL… We literaly killed heroic Sire the very first week it was out.
Imagine a world where it’s the only content available for raiding.
No we didn’t, and that’s the current problem of design Blizzard is facing. In order for every class to be “viable” it has to have X AoE, Y dps, Z utility and so on. And if they don’t, the world is literally on fire. No tradeoffs between classes are seen as tradeoffs, but mathematical deficiencies overcome by either buffing classes to match or rerolling until buffs are done.
Perfect example is the healer discussion during the Ion interview. They know full well that the only way to deal with Disc Priests is to nerf their healing, so they do a bit more damage but at the cost of healing. That’s a tradeoff. Where they have a problem is holy paladin who has been so designed around weaving melee dps into its healing rotation that they’re left with a vicious dilemma.
Either they give holy paladins “optional” dps in the same way all other healers have, which makes a holy paladin just another “shade” of the healer archetype that already exists.
Or they allow holy paladins to keep their niche and then all other healers are going to be inferior in virtue of the fact they do less damage while healing. So they’ll have to find some other way to buff them.
The other problem, too, is that you used to be able to differentiate yourself WITHIN your class / spec with old talent trees. This is no longer possible. In Wrath I had both an AoE focused Arms spec and a ST focused Arms spec that kept pace with Fury (which was supposed to be strictly better). It cost me the ability to swap to tank (I had another DK with two tank specs). Each character traded flexibility for efficiency in its role, and that choice is no longer possible. Why? Because you can respec talents at any time, on a whim. And you’re expected to where relevant to do so.
So not only are all the classes expected to fill the niches, but you’re expected to fill all the utility in your class by swapping talents when appropriate. AoE talents for AoE fights, and so on. But the devs, noticing the popularity of classic, of probably thought to themselves “How do we get some of that specialization back in the current climate?” They’re sure as hell not going to do it at the level of class / spec. So they tried to find a more subtle way of doing it which involved just one extra DPS button, and people are still losing their minds.
“Secondly, let’s establish the fact that not everyone plays WoW because of RPG elements. I know I am not. To be frank WoW is a pretty bad RPG game.”
Exactly, and has been since Cata. And look at how the subs have done since Cata. I rest my case.
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Maybe people should stop trying to devour the content as fast as they possibly can and actually take their time?
Oh wait, we’re talking about addicts here. Sorry. Gotta have your fix, right?
If all the Covenants can participate in Normal/Heroic Raiding, Key Master, and 2K rating in PvP then the system is working as intended. There’s no wrong choice.
I’m guessing the ‘smaller audience’ are those doing ‘cutting-edge’ content, which the game isn’t balanced around to begin with, so the complaint is rather moot.
Okay? What’s exactly preventing them from doing it? After all, they’re creating the competition themselves?
Because every choice works already. Why change something that is already working?
Again, not telling people how to have fun. Competition is individually subjective, but the objective remains the same; downing the boss.
Don’t know why there’s so much hostility…
This is not how you win any argument by the way, if you’ve run out of disucssion points you just opt out of the argument.
Hey guys Edyta just fixed everything, covenants are fine and everyone can swap off their BIS covenants now because someone did heroic sire ! thank god that’s done with.
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You’re the one making problems for yourself and demanding Blizzard fix your own self-made problems, you and that other person I was replying to.
You want Blizz to remove yet more meaningful choice from the game, why don’t we just strip all the classes down to “Healer”, “Tank”, and DPS while we’re at it so everything can be exactly balanced and just give different transmogs?
Same thing.
My guild raids 2 nights a week, 2 hours each night. That’s not exactly what I would call hardcore or addicted, we “finished” this tier ages ago when H Sire died. If there was no mythic+ or mythic raid tier to keep our casual but competent players engaged, the guild would die. As would most casual raiding guilds like mine.
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But yet, Wrath didn’t have Mythic, and it did just fine?
Maybe if you didn’t get max level in 5 hours, and dump a whole suit of armor on people within another 5 hours of play, we wouldn’t have this problem?
That’s not a covenant problem, though.
EDIT: Heck, Wrath was the single high point in sub numbers of all time and it never had Mythic or M+ and Heroic Raid was plenty to keep people going.
Ah the classic “It’s not the games fault, it’s your fault”. Glad we’ve arrived at this finally, took you longer than most people to blurt it out.
Meaningful choice? Where? I just swapped from Necrolord to Night Fae, Night fae to Kyrian, Kyrian to Venthyr and I’ll be going back to Necrolord after I get 40 as Venthyr.
What meaningful choice are you exactly talking about and how was it meaningful?
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